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Author Topic: Should New Labour be expelled from Socialist International?
NDP Newbie
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posted 08 March 2004 07:01 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whoring to the GOP and pandering to big business is not exactly suitable behaviour for an SI member.

While I would personally vote for the centre-left LibDems (it's the pragmatist in me) if I were a Brit, there a plenty of progressive alternatives to the Cult of Tony whose ideology far better suit Socialist International.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Holy Holy Holy
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posted 08 March 2004 07:03 PM      Profile for Holy Holy Holy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Socialist International is a gigantic fucking joke. They should be expelled from the planet for Robin Sears alone.
From: Holy | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tom Vouloumanos
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posted 08 March 2004 07:25 PM      Profile for Tom Vouloumanos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah if it were a true SI. But the SI has many horrid members that makes any true Leftist wonder about its relevance. For example, SI member Accion Democràtica of Venezuela is even worse. In 1989 the "social-democratic" PM of Venezuela, Carlos Andres Perez, sent the military to slaughter 1,000 workers and poor people from the cerros (shantytowns) for the audacity of protesting against an IMF austerity plan.
From: Montréal QC | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 08 March 2004 07:32 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps it is time for a new International. Let this one burn.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 08 March 2004 07:32 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If its members are so bad, maybe the NDP should abandon it.
From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tom Vouloumanos
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posted 08 March 2004 07:43 PM      Profile for Tom Vouloumanos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well the SI has many good member parties as well but it surely is not at the forefront of a a world left movement. I think though, we should pay more attention to things like the World Social Forum which may be the "new International". Funny thing, if it is, it is alot closer to what Bakunin argued for and further away from what Marx wanted.
From: Montréal QC | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 08 March 2004 07:55 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think the two are, if not necessary, desirable. I think the WSF should remain a (largely) non-partisan, extra-parliamentary body. I really think we need an International that a) has some frickin' standards, b) concentrates on being the electoral front of our various movements, and c) gains some credible visibility as an international alternative to the Washington Consensus.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 08 March 2004 07:56 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ps.

Tom V.: Check your e-mail.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 09 March 2004 08:52 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Socialist International is indeed somewhat bizarre.

It includes the thoroughly corrupt and authoritarian Institutional Revolutionary Party of Mexico (PRI)...mind you it also includes the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN) from Nicaragua.

Basically, its one big largely irrelevant "talk shop".


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Holy Holy Holy
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posted 09 March 2004 08:58 PM      Profile for Holy Holy Holy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's an historical anachronism that ceased to mean a goddam thing about thirty years ago - when it meant barely nothing.

Does the NDP support it's upkeep? If so I want my money back.


From: Holy | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 09 March 2004 09:07 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's a member.
From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gaia_Child
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posted 10 March 2004 12:34 AM      Profile for Gaia_Child     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Should Robin Sears be expelled from Planet Earth?
From: Western Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 10 March 2004 12:53 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What's the scoop on Robin Sears? I vaguely remember him as some sort of backroom NDP strategist who would occasionally appear on political panels on TV, but know little else. Why are people so down on him?
From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
candle
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posted 10 March 2004 02:43 AM      Profile for candle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Robin Sears is the grandson of CCF pioneer Colin Cameron. So I think he views the NDP somewhat of a birthright. He worked as secretary of the federal NDP when Broadbent was leader and was adviser to Ed on his campaigns. He went on to work in London to work as deputy secretary of SI. Bob Rae brought him back to Ontario in 1985 to be his principal secretary. As principal secretary he developed bad relations with caucus, staff, and the press. Just prior to the 1990 election David Peterson appointed Sears to a junior position in Tokyo with the agent general and Rae hired David Agnew. Rae then ensured Sears was kept in exile in Tokyo by promoting him to Agent-General, where Sears overspent his budget.


His nicknames included: "Vlad the Impaler" "Boy Stalin" "Darth Vader" "Prince of Darkness"

Oh and he also worked with Jamie Watt and George Smitherman on the Hall campaign in 2003

He is now involved in Executive Recruitment


From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 10 March 2004 02:48 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Isn't Robin Sears the son of former Toronto Star columnist Val Sears?
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
candle
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posted 10 March 2004 03:01 AM      Profile for candle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't know. His mother is Mag Sears and her name became involved in some opposition questions while Sears was in Tokyo. It seems that she was in the employ of Houselink which had issues around it during audits of the Ministry of Housing
From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Holy Holy Holy
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posted 10 March 2004 12:56 PM      Profile for Holy Holy Holy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by candle:
Oh and he also worked with Jamie Watt and George Smitherman on the Hall campaign in 2003

He is now involved in Executive Recruitment


According to Toronto Life, he actually phoned Miller and told him to drop out because his candidacy would "only hurt Barbara" then he got Bob Rae to do the same.

Both men are so useless and stupid it's almost not worth discussing them. But then, I think of spite, and let my schadenfreude pour out. There's something so enjoyable about wathcing pompous twits like Sears and Rae fail so consistently.


From: Holy | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 10 March 2004 01:06 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Someone who assumed that I lived in Toronto (doesn't everyone? ) e-mailed me last February urging me to join the Hall campaign. One of the reasons that he cited for New Democrats to support Hall was that Sears was working on her campaign. I told him that, even if I lived in Toronto and were otherwise inclined to support Hall over Miller, that tidbit would have made me change my mind.

Incidentally, I guess Miller really did "hurt Barbara", didn't he?

[ 10 March 2004: Message edited by: Scott Piatkowski ]


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
hibachi
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posted 10 March 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for hibachi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think if the NDP wants to go up from 17% to 20% in the polls it should not have anything to do with international socialists.

Because otherwise, assholes can point at our leader and say, "You're an NDP socialist", and the leader will have nothing to say back.


From: Toronto, Ont. | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 10 March 2004 01:11 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Socialist International and the International Socialists are completely different entities.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Krago
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posted 10 March 2004 01:16 PM      Profile for Krago     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just like the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front.
From: The Royal City | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 10 March 2004 02:35 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by hibachi:

Because otherwise, assholes can point at our leader and say, "You're an NDP socialist", and the leader will have nothing to say back.

There is but one thing to say. "...and proud of it!"


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
kingblake
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posted 10 March 2004 05:57 PM      Profile for kingblake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Krago:
Just like the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front.

No, actually, more like the difference between the Second International and the Fourth International. ie. quite substantial.

From: In Regina, the land of Exotica | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
KAROSHI
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posted 30 March 2004 06:02 PM      Profile for KAROSHI     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
To those Newbies and others who have a smattering of rhetoric, a confusion of nomenclature, and a big hole in their left history:

Gather round, little grasshoppers, and let me share a little history of Socialism with you.

The Intl Working Men's Assoc (later known as the First Intl) was founded in London in 1864. Marx was an executive member but not a leader. Bakunin split the Intl, and Marx moved it first to NYC and then Philly to adoive anarchist control. It died there and was relaunched as the Second Intl in London in 1889. Split again by WWI and Lenin, it was relaunched in 1919. Much division among parties caused by the war was never healed til after WW2 when it was relaunched again in 1951. (Stalin created the Third Intl in 1919-20 to compete with the 2nd, Trotsky created the Fourth in '38).

The Socialist Intl, as it was dubbed in the 1951 Congress, is the true successor to the IWMA (1st I, 2nd I, and the 1919 2nd I). As has been the history of the movement generally, splits and factions dominate to this day. Nonetheless the SI is the oldest, largest, most influential of all the political internationals today.

There are now five of consequence: The Christian Democrat International (rw), the Democracy International(very rw), the Liberal International, the Fourth International (Trot, two versions) and the SI.

Yes the Labour Party is a member, so is Lula's party. Yes, the FSLN is now a member, it was never permitted though until the end of the war and their renunciation of armed struggle. The ANC is a member along with PRI, and the Mexican socialist party PRD. The parties politics range from the SPOe (Austria) and the Israeli Labour Party on the right to the NZLP and the PDT (Brazil) on the left.

The organisation operates as a policy forum, lobbyist, educational resource, and negotiating arena today. (The first contacts between Israel and the PLO took place under SI Leaders Willy Brandt, Bruno Kreisky and Shimon Peres.)

Yes, it is weaker and more unfocussed than it was in its heyday of the 70s and 80s. Those inside would argue that was due more to the weakness of the leadership (currently Portuguese and Chilean) than ideology.

For 140 years, through several wars and many splits it has survived and it will no doubt continue.

Here the lesson endeth.


From: VANCOUVER | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged

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