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Author Topic: Why i hate Bono
kingblake
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posted 05 November 2003 07:18 AM      Profile for kingblake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rock superstar Bono will take the stage at the Liberal Party convention that will crown Paul Martin
too bad Paul Anka's getting upstaged.

From: In Regina, the land of Exotica | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 05 November 2003 08:29 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
well, whatever we think of paul martin, i think bono's committment to AIDS activism and debt relief is genuine.
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
SirDuke
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posted 05 November 2003 11:21 AM      Profile for SirDuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wish I was going to the Liberal convention now, I love Bono!!!

U2 Forever!!!


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The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 05 November 2003 11:56 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Bono's tireless efforts towards AIDS funding & third-world debt relief have been an amazing example of positive activism worldwide. If this guy wants to speak to the Liberals, that's fine with me. He's earned it. I hope even a fraction of what he has to say penetrates the Liberal shield of indifference.
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 05 November 2003 01:20 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bono is preaching to the unconverted?

Heretic! Burn him!


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ronb
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posted 05 November 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Does this mean Martin's back on his weird Tobin Tax kick from a few years back? If memory serves, it's the only reason Bono sought him out back then.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 05 November 2003 05:54 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Geez. I hated him becaus he's a boring ponce. I don't need any more reason.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 06 November 2003 02:18 PM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well I for one find Bono's saintly toadying a shade or two disgusting. If you've gotta waste your time speaking truth to power, for God's sake don't do it over ice wine and canapes!

The guy has definitely got a case of the Geldofs.


From: Vineland Station, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 06 November 2003 02:25 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So who is a better role model?
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 06 November 2003 02:40 PM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Crass!
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arborman
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posted 06 November 2003 04:06 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What's wrong with the Tobin tax?

I don't have a problem with Bono addressing the Libs. They are, after all, the government, and will be for awhile yet. Might as well try to get some support for his goals (apart from being a self involved pop god).

At least he's trying to do something. Can't stand their music myself, but I've never pretended to have taste...


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 06 November 2003 05:25 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well I for one find Bono's saintly toadying a shade or two disgusting. If you've gotta waste your time speaking truth to power, for God's sake don't do it over ice wine and canapes!

speaking truth to power is a waste of time?

look, 35 million people may be infected with HIV in china and india alone by 2010, never mind what state africa is going to be in. if bono can shift development aid by 1-2% among key countries in the north, more strength to his arm.

[ 06 November 2003: Message edited by: Willowdale Wizard ]


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
minimal
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posted 06 November 2003 05:30 PM      Profile for minimal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've never heard of "Bono" but if he's some kind of screeching rock star then don't bother to fill me in. Just carry on with this inane discussion. Are you sure this guy's name isn't "Arnold"?
From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 06 November 2003 05:42 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
wow.

Alberta really is another dimension entirely.


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robbie_dee
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posted 06 November 2003 06:23 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I've never heard of "Bono"

You too?

[ 06 November 2003: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
minimal
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posted 06 November 2003 06:23 PM      Profile for minimal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We are not one dimensional in Alberta. We do have a diversity of musical tastes. Anyway, where is it written that we must all be fans of some half-baked rock star just because he/she is trying to gain publicity by supporting good causes? Do I have to be a rock music fan to be left wing? Besides, this Bono character is going to the LIBERAL convention. Sounds to me like he just wants to jump on the Martin bandwagon.
From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 06 November 2003 06:35 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't think Bono and U2 really need the publicity. And while the man may very well eat canapes and drink ice wine and believe the sun shines from his arse, who cares if he gets tangible results? Go celebs go!
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 06 November 2003 06:52 PM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by minimal:
Anyway, where is it written that we must all be fans of some half-baked rock star just because he/she is trying to gain publicity by supporting good causes?

No one should be a fan of anyone unless they want to be. But not having heard of him is, um, unusual.


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 06 November 2003 06:55 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am from Alberta, and I think my younger sister would consider sacrificing her eldest brother to sit in the same room as Bono. Not that I understand it.

He's expended a lot of effort trying to draw attention to real world problems. It may well be because he thinks the sun shines out of his arse, but who cares. If he gets anything done, go to it.

He definitely doesn't need the publicity, I doubt he's 'jumping on the Liberal bandwagon.' More like he sees an opportunity to express his views to a group of government leaders. I might take the same opportunity myself.

So what's the big deal? You would prefer he speaks to the all-powerful opposition parties in this country?


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Junkyard Dog
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posted 06 November 2003 07:07 PM      Profile for Junkyard Dog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bono may be genuinely well-meaning, but he's also been pretty damned undiscriminating as to which politicians he'll cuddle up to in public. Didn't he shill for Jesse Helmes once?
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WingNut
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posted 06 November 2003 07:14 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is there evidence that Bono has gained tangible results?

I remember hin warming up to Jean Chretien before the "behind the fence and away from the people" confab of the G8 in Alberta. They were to make Africa the discussion and get more money for AIDS.

Bush made terrorism teh discussion and got more money for war. Africa got barely a drop in the bucket.

I appreciate Bono's efforts but the powers that be will let you talk politely forever so long as they don't have to do anything.


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Sean Tisdall
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posted 06 November 2003 07:47 PM      Profile for Sean Tisdall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
well, whatever we think of paul martin, i think bono's committment to AIDS activism and debt relief is genuine.

Yes, but beyond that he's a grit. Therefore, he's evil.

quote:
Hold on people. This fellows talkin' about waste management, something that affects the whole world!

Cor, here we go again.



From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Dimension XY | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 06 November 2003 07:50 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bono isn't a grit. He isn't even Canadian. Irish to the core, just taking an opportunity to speak to power.

Speaking to people is not necessarily cosying up to them. It's a little better than deriding them and hissing at anyone that dares to speak to people who make decisions.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kanada Dry
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posted 06 November 2003 07:58 PM      Profile for Kanada Dry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie:

...But not having heard of him is, um, unusual.


I don't think it is unusual at all.

My old man was born in '45 and I'm pretty sure - to the best of his recollection - he has never heard of Bono or U2.

[ 06 November 2003: Message edited by: Kanada Dry ]


From: British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 06 November 2003 09:09 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I see Sean is back, talking politics. Just curious since you are trashing Bono for cozying-up to the Grits. What party are you with now? Tried NDP? Check. Tried DOSPC?(David Orchard Styled Progressive Conservative) Check. What's left?
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 06 November 2003 10:18 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I predict Sean and perhaps Orchard will end up with the Greens. They're to the right of the NDP (no nasty trade unions or sweaty workers) and give lip service to globalisation issues.
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Polunatic
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posted 07 November 2003 12:05 AM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Bono rarely attends partisan events, but DATA carefully considered the invitation, which offered an opportunity to speak directly to influential Canadians. And Bono will be looking for Canada to respond.

It's a bit premature to impugn the guy before reading the article.

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windymustang
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posted 07 November 2003 01:13 AM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry but I'm just a tad bit late to this conversation. Had to put in my 2bits, well maybe 10.

Originally posted by Lard tunderin' jeesus:

quote:
wow.

Alberta really is another dimension entirely.



lol, Lard tunderin' jeesus. Great handle by the way, makes me smile every time I see you post because you remind me of my great Newfie friends so far away in AB

Originally posted by minimal:

quote:
Anyway, where is it written that we must all be fans of some half-baked rock star just because he/she is trying to gain publicity by supporting good causes? Do I have to be a rock music fan to be left wing? Besides, this Bono character is going to the LIBERAL convention. Sounds to me like he just wants to jump on the Martin bandwagon.

ahhh lighten up, can't you tell a joke when you see it? Why would an Irishman jump on the Lib bandwagon. He's using his fame to promote issues that concern him.

Originally posted by Wingnut:

quote:
Is there evidence that Bono has gained tangible results?

Ever hear of that song all the pop stars did to raise funds for famine in Ethiopia? (We are the World), he has a website that champions all sorts of causes, and is especially active in Irish politics and the quest for peace in N. Eire.

[ 13 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 07 November 2003 02:01 AM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Ever hear of that song all the pop stars did to raise funds for famine in Ethiopia? (We are the World),

Ooh, I remember it well. And I'm sure at the time people were saying, "Sure the whole enterprise is musically vomitous and disgustingly self-congratulatory, but hey, if they achieve results...!" (sorry)

Oddly enough, hunger in Africa is still with us; hunger would still be with us if Lionel Richie sang it at the Democratic convention; and I also rather doubt Bono buttering up the hordes about Paul Martin's 'vision' is going to help a single PWA.

Hey Albertans, I remember an interview where Preston Manning tried to prove how young and hip he was by expressing his admiration for Bono's band, which is called U2. I find it emblematic that FIFTEEN YEARS later, the political class still hasn't hit reload on their pop culture browser...

Anyway, to put this train of thought into the station one would have to demonstrate that Bono is in fact coming by to set the party policy on HIV, as opposed to allowing himself (or perhaps fulfilling some deep inner impulse) to be paraded in front of the cameras as a soul mate to that old goat crotch Martin.

Anyway: Dave Bleakney agrees with me!

Bono Bloody Bono

Can't resist pulling this quote (from the URL below) which suggests that his mission bears some, er, baggage:

"These politicians keep taking the lead on issues that really concern us, people who are what you might call the movement for change in the developing world."

Friends, he's talking about JEAN CHRETIEN...

[ 13 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: Vineland Station, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
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posted 07 November 2003 03:12 AM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bleakney makes a very strong case against Chretien which we all know. I can't help but think he was a little harsh on Bono. I still think of Bono as a "do-gooder" who's over his head but at the same time has doors open to him that other activists don't. He's looking for common ground, even with some of the most evil people on earth to address major issues.

At least it generates a lot of publicity for the issues and challenges leaders to act. But I guess the proof is in the pudding. Does Bono deliver? Can Bono deliver?


From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 07 November 2003 03:33 AM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Originally posted by natas:
quote:
Ooh, I remember it well. And I'm sure at the time people were saying, "Sure the whole enterprise is musically vomitous and disgustingly self-congratulatory, but hey, if they achieve results...!" (sorry)

Oddly enough, hunger in Africa is still with us; hunger would still be with us if Lionel Richie sang it at the Democratic convention; and I also rather doubt Bono buttering up the hordes about Paul Martin's 'vision' is going to help a single PWA.
...
Bono Bloody Bono

Can't resist pulling this quote (from the URL below) which suggests that his mission bears some, er, baggage:

"These politicians keep taking the lead on issues that really concern us, people who are what you might call the movement for change in the developing world."

Friends, he's talking about JEAN CHRETIEN...


What? With this cynical attitude we might as well all pack it in, dig our bunkers and forget about the rest of society. Of course celebrities aren't going to change the world with their promoting important causes, but a lot of them bring in big $'s, and awareness which is equally important, toward some really worthy issues. I don't really care if they're a##holes or just stupid as it looks like Bono might be. So many artists in the past and present were/are jerks; Beethovan, Wagner, sure even Bono, that doesn't mean that their work is irrelevant.

[ 07 November 2003: Message edited by: windymustang ]


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 07 November 2003 04:04 AM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Admittedly I'm cynical about electoral politics! Though at this late date I prefer 'realistic.' As in, the next Prime Minister of Canada is realistically not the man to save Third World health care!! Whether he hires Bono to say he is or not.

And then there's the issue of context, as in what are we NOT focusing on at this here Liberal convention, as we listen to these good moral admonitions about somewhere else.

The advantage in the exchange is all Martin's. It seems so transparent to me.

But I'm not saying one thing or another about his art, or his conscience. Just, please, his tactics!!!!


From: Vineland Station, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 07 November 2003 04:40 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whether or not you like his music, or even if you haven't heard of him (which, yes, folks, is unusual, even if your pops was born in '45. So was mine, and he's a '' yet he's heard of U2 and Bono.) is not the issue here. He is, at times, the charismatic frontman of the, at times, biggest band in pop/rock (careful now, I in no way imply best...) and I feel he is genuinely passionate about his causes (including waste management) and believe me, the last thing he needs is to jump on any 'bandwagon' or boost is own popularity. Such accusations are positively laughable.

If ye naysayers got a chance to give a good talking to Paul Martin or George W. about AIDS and debt relief in Africa, wouldn't you take it? Bono's in a position to do so, even if it is on their terms. Even if Paul Martin smiles politely at the cute little rockstar who's 'interested' in 'world affairs' while the anointed-one signs the latest WTO agreement, don't you think a few people tuning in at home will at least let the words 'African AIDS epidemic' and 'Crushing Third-World Debt' enter their vocabulary? Don't you think that this is a good thing?

If Bono is legitimately passionate about these issues, as I am certain he is, how would you expect him to proceed? Do you deride Ralph Nader for appearing on the Daily Show? Should we rest the fate of his endeavour on his shoulders? Of course not, he's just a pop star, after all. The fact is, Bono is in a unique position to make waves where others cannot. Try not to focus on the terrible calamity that was 'Discotheque' and try to remember the last time Britney Spears, etc. tried, the best they could, to rid the world of AIDS.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
LukeVanc
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posted 07 November 2003 04:44 AM      Profile for LukeVanc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Clearly this is a case of one upmanship on the part of the Liberal Party of Canada. Jack Layton got the Bare Naked Ladies, so Paul Martin went to great lengths to secure Bono. Of course the fact that Paul Martin had to secure a foreign singer speaks volumes about the Liberal Party. Only artists totally oblivious to the political situation in Canada are willing to promote the Liberal Party, so it is necessary to cross the Atlantic Ocean to secure the likes of Crackhead Jagger and Bono.

Paul Martin is threatened by the NDP and the NDP's potential at securing the voter loyalty of millions of progressive Canadians, so he is trying as hard as he can to come across as young, new, and hip. All this despite the fact that his bloody paw prints are all over the past 10 years of neoliberal social upheaval that we have endured under the Liberals.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
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posted 07 November 2003 11:06 AM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Common Dreams/Irish Times
More "Bono is naive" at best opinion
Well Natas, I guess I'm moving in your direction on this. One question. What about the other big name rock stars like Mick Jagger who don't appear to do anything at all of social value? Isn't the Bono approach better than doing nothing or is Bono causing more harm than good?

From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 November 2003 11:56 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Of course, we should only approve of activist pop stars who will talk to the politicians we support. You know, NDPers, the folks who already know what he's going to say, already support what he's doing, and aren't actually in power now, or are likely to be in the foreseeable future.

And the point of that would be?


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 07 November 2003 01:54 PM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

don't you think a few people tuning in at home will at least let the words 'African AIDS epidemic' and 'Crushing Third-World Debt' enter their vocabulary?

If Paul Martin used those words at the Liberal convention, I would expect that usage to be suspect and opportunist unless it came with a concrete plan of action that would fly in the face of most existing Liberal policies. As it is, the words aren't even in the leader's mouth.

If, I dunno, Sass Jordan or someone decided to come to the Christian Heritage party convention to talk about gay rights, we wouldn't say, 'at least she's getting the message out.' We'd say, 'something is afoot.' Something more cynical than me, even!

Let's not bring Jagger into this, oh please! I'm not advocating that rock stars become investment bankers rather than take up causes. But remember James Brown singing "Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud?" "Get Up Get Into It and Get Involved?" Well, were those messages effectively propagated when he held a photo-op with Nixon? No they were brutally undermined. Same deal!

The spirit of rock and roll is in the streets, even if its body is held for ransom on the other side of the fence.

Here is what I am talking about. From Lester Bangs via Greil Marcus, now a CERTIFIED asshole (did you? Hear him go off on Chomsky?) But this really does capture the issue nicely, to me:

quote:

The late Lester Bangs on the 1976 Second Annual Rock Music Awards telecast, hosted by Alice Cooper and Diana Ross:

The highlight of the evening was the Public Service Award. Alice Cooper complained that "rock music personalities are foremost and basically people -- contrary to rumor. People with the same dreams, desires and feelings as everyone else. They're ambitious but they're not selfish or self involved -- but caring!...and I can't read this card. Their careers are time-consuming, but they still invest whatever time they have in- --" Diana: " -- what we in the industry are most proud of -- the Public Service Award." They have Public Service Awards to Harry Chapin for contributing to World Hunger Year, and to Dylan for helping get Rubin "Hurricane" Carter out of jail....Then Diana administered the coup de grace: "But seriously, folks, there's an incredible movement growing in the United States; concerned citizens who believe that whales have the right to life. And through words and through music the team of David Crosby and Graham Nash express their own concern, by giving a special concert so that the whales are still alive. I think that is absolutely incredible and we honor them with our fifth Public Service Award...."

Alice made a crack about Flo and Eddie being there, speaking of whales, and Diana continued: "No, seriously, I do know that a lot of my friends are concerned about this area and it's something that I personally would like very much to be interested in."


The whole article - it's about "We are the World" and is the second item down - is at:

Number One With a Bullet


From: Vineland Station, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 November 2003 02:30 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interestingly, the results of the Save the Whales thing and the We Are The World thing were this:

An international moratorium on whaling and increased famine aid to Ethiopia. Saved some whales, saved some humans.

Of course the celebrities who endorsed those causes lended publicity to well-established campaigns. Campaigns led by people who may have, in fact, had lunch with an inappropriate politician or two while they were negotiating the moratorium or convincing the powers-that-be to extend their existing famine relief.

Personally, I think that before we allow anyone to do any good, anywhere, we need to run a background check on them to see if they've ever publically associated with anyone who is not on the approved list. If indeed they have ever associated with the politically incorrect, or have attempted to force change through contact with legitimate government (whose members of course cannot possibly be on the 'approved' list, due to the fact that they are in power and therefore are the enemy), we cannot allow them to do any good whatsoever. God forbid we ever lobby those in a position to change policies and fund those changes. Their partisan politics might pollute our cause and make it ... achievable.

[ 07 November 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 07 November 2003 02:35 PM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now now.
From: Vineland Station, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
seeshell
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posted 07 November 2003 02:44 PM      Profile for seeshell     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The reality is that AIDS organizations and committees are lucky to have a name like BONO to lend itself to their cause. I know this first hand, as I work for a not so sexy charity and it is at times almost impossible to get people to care or notice. Having a celebrity name really gets the word out there. And whether or not you like his music or his style or his politics, he's helping out quite a bit in getting the average joe to know about a very serious problem.
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mighty brutus
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posted 07 November 2003 02:59 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have reservations about pop stars getting mixed up in political causes, but at least Bono is coherent & seems sincerely interested.
I much prefer him to many of the current crop of crotch-grabbing, 'ho-slapping, pimp wanna-be 'singers' that are out there. (Snoop Dogg excepted of course! Me love Snoop Dogg!)

From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 November 2003 03:00 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Now now.
Great response. I'll have to remember it for the next time someone accurately points out how far up my ass my head is. Usually I just say, "oh shit, you're right", but I would really rather say something smug and meaningless.

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 07 November 2003 03:29 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While the world's peace movement was trying to stop the US invasion of Iraq:


His heart may be in the right place but he is too easily duped and used.


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 November 2003 03:56 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, that's what they said about me when they snapped me in my stars and stripes bra and panty set.
quote:
While the world's peace movement was trying to stop the US invasion of Iraq:
Oh...my...god. You mean Bono was talking to one of a handful of people who could actually stop the war instead of marching and writing angry letters? What the hell was he thinking?

[ 07 November 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 07 November 2003 04:10 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Like I said Rebecca his heart may be in the right place, but I think Bush and his causes get more out of that photo op than Bono and his causes. Bono's sucking up to the Bush administration had exactly zero effect on policy.

The US flag jacket was part of the infamous Superbowl half-time which was a sickening tribute to US jingoism, that Bono embraced and participated in with gusto.

[ 07 November 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
minimal
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posted 07 November 2003 04:10 PM      Profile for minimal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess if the Liberal Party is cool with this rock screecher Bono then, as a fan, I'd better vote Liberal. Isn't that the logic here? Get all the lemming-like twenty somethings to get out there and vote Liberal because WOW, the Liberals like Bono! I guess it's going to be an effective strategy and it seems like several babblers are falling for this ploy. Anyway, how much is the Liberal Party paying this guy? Are they paying him? Is he doing it for free? Did he just volunteer to arrive at the convention?
From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 07 November 2003 04:16 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rebecca, were you playing a subjugating imperatrix?

I agree with Jimmy, that was pretty gross of Bono.

[ 07 November 2003: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 November 2003 04:46 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Bono's sucking up to the Bush administration had exactly zero effect on policy.
I agree. But I don't think anyone with half a brain would mistake his sucking up to the Bush Admin for approval of their foreign policy. And Bush doesn't need Bono to get public approval for bombing the crap out of brown people any more than Bono need Paul Martin to boost his career.
quote:
Rebecca, were you playing a subjugating imperatrix?
How'd you guess? And that's MS. Subjugating Imperiatrix to you.
quote:
I agree with Jimmy, that was pretty gross of Bono.
Yabbut, remember he's who he's entertaining and what the venue is. Flag-waving jingoism is pretty much de rigeur at the Superbowl. Not that I'm really excusing it - it's pretty revolting, but it's a show.

Really, it isn't that I think Bono is great or that U2 is my favourite band (neither interest me much), but it really irks me, this whole idea of "one shouldn't be perceived to be fraternizing with the enemy when one is a dedicated activist" bullshit. Lobbyists for all kinds of horrendous crap suck government cock quite successfully. If it works, go for it. If it doesn't, and a handful of people who don't know who you are or what you're about think you're giving a partisan endorsement instead of lobbying for change, big deal. If they don't know squat about the celeb, then they don't have much effect, do they?

Now if Bono fails utterly to successfully raise public awareness for his causes, then I'll happily cede that he's a dupe. But I think he'll lend some credibility, and yes some glamour, to causes that people otherwise wouldn't give a crap about.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 07 November 2003 05:27 PM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
quote: Rebecca, were you playing a subjugating imperatrix?

How'd you guess? And that's MS. Subjugating Imperiatrix to you.


Rebecca, can you come with me to my dysfunctional family gathering next week? I could really use your brains and your MS. Subjugating Imperiatrix attitude to dis my sibs. You'll get a free ride of only 3800km across the prairies incl a slight detour, all the food you can eat, including my cookies and squares mmm, a number of nights in overcrowed guest rooms and plenty of FRIENDLY banter just like this. What do you say? Please, please

[ 13 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
natas
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posted 07 November 2003 06:37 PM      Profile for natas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, Rebecca, I'm bowing out of this thread because I do not appreciate being told I have my head up my ass, no brain, etc. Sorry, but I'm not into playing games. I just have these opinions. I'll keep em to myself from now on, promise. Bye.
From: Vineland Station, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
minimal
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posted 07 November 2003 06:56 PM      Profile for minimal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As for ME, let me categorically state that I do not think that MY head is up my ass. And let me further state that I don't really know if I like Bono's music because I don't think I've ever listened to it. Does that mean that my ears were up my ass? What the hell, I recant. Good for the Liberal Party, good for George Bush and good for Bono (what is his real name anyway?) if he can walk away with a tidy sum for his retirement plan.
From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 07 November 2003 07:00 PM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Quote:
_______________________________________

Yeah, Rebecca, I'm bowing out of this thread because I do not appreciate being told I have my head up my ass, no brain, etc. Sorry, but I'm not into playing games. I just have these opinions. I'll keep em to myself from now on, promise. Bye.
_______________________________________

Heard in the distance, "...stomp, stomp, stomp, mutter, mutter)

[ 07 November 2003: Message edited by: windymustang ]


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 07 November 2003 07:08 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't really like Bono's newer music, and I can't help but feel a little cynical at first, but I think that there has been plenty of over-reaction here; people's ideas would have to be pretty fragile in order for them to be so offended by other people's taste in musicians or in political activists. Too much whining, imho; I'd say suck it up, let the man do what he will
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 11 November 2003 09:58 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by natas:
Yeah, Rebecca, I'm bowing out of this thread because I do not appreciate being told I have my head up my ass, no brain, etc. Sorry, but I'm not into playing games. I just have these opinions. I'll keep em to myself from now on, promise. Bye.
Actually, the 'head up the ass' thing was self-referential, but if it works for you to, go for it. The 'half a brain' thing was a very general statement implying that the average person is too smart to believe that Bono is a right-wing shill, but hey, if you want to apply it to yourself, go to town. Make it all about you. Flounce away!

And yeah, the thing about making your opinions public, is that you're going to get people who disagree with you. Don't like that? By all means, keep 'em to yourself.

[ 11 November 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 11 November 2003 08:09 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I see that Paul Martin's "I'm trying to look cool but miserably failing at it" moment is coming soon.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
dale
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posted 11 November 2003 08:10 PM      Profile for dale        Edit/Delete Post
Being outraged about the "Bono and Martin Show" is like being outraged about Arnold being head groper in Calif.

Really, who gives a shit about what some movie/rock star thinks anyway?

Plus, the Liberals here must seem like socialists compared to our southern neighbours.

And, I seem to remember that the NDP crowd did a lot of crowing about the BNL and Layton. What, the right can't have rock stars of their own?


From: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
banquosghost
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posted 11 November 2003 09:35 PM      Profile for banquosghost     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
An AIDS in Africa activist who had no access to powerful people or organizations, no name recognition in the public arena, no media coverage but whose politics were explicitly and appropriately aligned would be more acceptable.

Right? Is that the point of all these anti Bono hissy fits?

Cranial-anal inversion is the kindliest assessment. Ideological self-interest abstracted into inhumanity comes closer.

If any of you who have been having these childish hissy fits have raised any serious money for African AIDS relief or put yourselves in front of the media in the company of people you may find personally distasteful in order to try to I'll be happy to listen to you. If not...piss off!


From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 11 November 2003 09:57 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The only people having a hissy fit are you and the other Bono apologists.

I don't like who he gives political aid and comfort to, whether its Bush, Paul O'Neil, or Paul Martin. If your going to get in bed with these slime balls the least you could do is get some tangible results.

Sorry don't see any tangible results - only a naive, used, and confused pop-star.


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 11 November 2003 10:04 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am a U2 fan. Well, I was. The last great album was Rattle and Hum and then they went and got the message confused with the medium only the medium wasn't so much the music as it was the venue if you know what I mean.

But I agree with Jimmy Brogan. God bless his soul and keep him safe from harm. If you lay down with dogs you have got to expect ye'll be waking up with fleas. Bono's a decent sort but the dogs he chooses to lay down with don't hunt so all he has to show for his efforts is an uncomfortable itch all over his body.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 11 November 2003 10:34 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by JimmyBrogan:
The only people having a hissy fit are you and the other Bono apologists.
Just for that, I'm going to flounce off and deprive everyone of my profound thoughts on Bono.

No I'm not...it just ain't my style. And I don't have any profound thoughts, as you can see. But I do resent being called an apologist for Bono. I mean, we don't really know if his efforts will see any reward. A whole shitload of artists have been working on the AIDS Africa issue, including the late great Joe Strummer. It's gaining a bit of momentum, but it's going to be quite a while before tangible results are seen.

And if nothing tangible comes of all this pop star public awareness stuff, call me an apologist then. But I'm already seeing a bit of a groundswell - more coverage of the issue on TV for one. And if that results in some bucks being put towards even a few of the nearly 1 million children (or is it more now?) orphaned by AIDS, good. If it raises enough money to provide medications to a few thousand people who, if they were in Europe or North America, would probably survive for years and raise their children, good.

Not enough, but good still.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
banquosghost
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posted 11 November 2003 11:03 PM      Profile for banquosghost     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Brogan and Wingnut:

Ah, I see...it's an instant gratification thing.

You don't see tangible results. And what with you bein' on the ground in Africa and all of course you're in a position to know. Why don't you ask Stephen Lewis what he thinks about what Bono's doing? Or is Stephen Lewis tainted too since he's just as willing to meet with all those "unacceptable" types?

What I get from what you're saying is that basically, as far as you're concerned, current African AIDS related death rates are more acceptable than awareness raising and fund raising by pop stars who use their celebrity to meet with powerful people of whom you don't approve in their quest for action and money for the cause of AIDS relief in Africa.

That's some trade off.

That's just as ideologically blinkered as the religious far right wing nuts.

Enjoy your bed fellows.

[ 11 November 2003: Message edited by: banquosghost ]


From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 12 November 2003 12:13 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Tsk, tsk.

I thought you a well meaning fellow banquethost, so I let slip your ealrlier diatribe:
"An AIDS in Africa activist who had no access to powerful people or organizations, no name recognition in the public arena, no media coverage but whose politics were explicitly and appropriately aligned would be more acceptable."

Such a person I would expect would be too busy saving lives to be bothered wasting their time kissing Paul Martin's ass.

Personally, I think Bono, if he wants, can attend every well guarded event that no African, not related to a favoured dictator, could get within a dozen miles off.

Bono, I think, is well meaning. But, as we know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In my view, Bono couold accomplish far more educating and mobilizing his legions of fans who never have graced a polling booth and for whom AIDS is something you risk not using a condom and African is what precedes -American.

AIDS has been killing Africans for many years and the West has provided plenty of lip service while funding internicine wars in the interests of gaining control of valuable mineral rights.

There are many diseases killing Africans and all are ignored equally.

Someone like Bono has tremendous opportunity for education and mobilization none of which will happen during photo-ops with rich, white Canadian politicians who can always discover a more pressing priority than the lives of sick Africans.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 12 November 2003 03:38 AM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let's not forget what happened the last time Bono meddled in electoral politics.

Just like Paul Martin, Homer Simpson got the Bono seal of approval by appearing on the same stage as Bono. Homer went on to win the election for sanitation commissioner with disastrous results.

Coincidentally, Jack Layton described in a February Globe and Mail article how Layton used the same Simpsons episode at a critical city council meeting. (The Adams mine proposal was eventually defeated, in large part due to the NDPers on Toronto Council.):

quote:

I might be the only federal leader who has every Simpsons episode on tape, although I don't want to claim the credit for this -- this was done by my son. One time we were debating whether or not Toronto should send its garbage to the north, to the Kirkland Lake abandoned mine, I think it was called the Adams mine. It was a huge story, a national story: "Mel Lastman wants to send his garbage to an abandoned mine and dump it in there for 20 years."

I said to my son, "Wasn't there some Simpsons episode about that?" And he said, "Yeah, Homer was put in charge of garbage and put it in some mine."

He said "I have a copy," he went down and got it, ran it to the section and we played it. It was absolutely stunning, it was so accurate to what was going on.

So we showed it at a strategic moment of the debate -- because I was doing most of the speaking, we showed it during my wife [fellow Toronto city councillor] Olivia Chow's turn. We cued the guys upstairs who run the video, and there was nothing the deputy mayor could do about it at that point. It was running, and we had tipped off the media about it and they were there with their cameras all lined up, so there's Olivia speaking and you could see on the screen up above Homer shoving garbage with a bulldozer down a mine. And they make lots of money, but suddenly the garbage starts popping up everywhere, and it just makes the point you can't just put the stuff out of sight, out of mind. We used that little bit of satire because it's a very efficient technique to deliver social commentary.


[ 12 November 2003: Message edited by: Paul Gross ]


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
banquosghost
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posted 12 November 2003 11:53 AM      Profile for banquosghost     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
wingnut, you're absolutely right. It's all a waste of time.
From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 12 November 2003 12:00 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Gross:

Just like Paul Martin, Homer Simpson got the Bono seal of approval by appearing on the same stage as Bono. Homer went on to win the election for sanitation commissioner with disastrous results.


I forgot about that! Oh, it would be SO good to drag out that episode.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 12 November 2003 12:24 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by banquosghost:
wingnut, you're absolutely right. It's all a waste of time.

Maybe you can point out to me where I said that? It is not all a waste of time. But schmoozing with politicians who will use your image to advance their own political careers while not giving a shit about what matters to you is, indeed, a waste of time.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 12 November 2003 12:52 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But schmoozing with politicians who will use your image to advance their own political careers while not giving a shit about what matters to you is, indeed, a waste of time.
I don't think a photo-op with Bono is going to get anyone elected, any more than Bono sucking up to Bush is going to save the world. A lot of work needs to be done by a lot of different people - both famous and obscure. Me, I think that you need to make an impression on the people who are actually in a position to do something, and you can't always do that from a distance. If you're not at the table, you don't eat.

There are a whole bunch of ways to approach activism, to conduct public awareness campaigns. When it comes to a campaign to save lives, how significant to the results have to be before we say, "okay, sidling up to that sleezeball politician was a good idea after all."

Even dilettantes accomplish.

Bono's antics aside, I guess what I really object to is what I perceive as the elitism of The Movement. You may only campaign in approved ways...you may only approach approved people...you have too much money and too much fame to make a valid contribution...you aren't "left enough" for us.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 12 November 2003 02:21 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
C'mon Rebecca, sure it does. Do you remember Bono here for the G-8 in Alberta? He added a credibility where there wasn't one. Middle-class Canadians could go to bed knowing the plight of AIDS wracked Africa would finally get a fair hearing because Chretien and Bono told them so.

Martin will be facing election in about six months and it doesn't hurt his optics among the Much fans to be seen with Bono. No, it won't get him elected but it won't hurt his chances either. Wouldn't Bono do better to be seen with a leadership hopeful who might actually do something aboout AIDS?

quote:
You may only campaign in approved ways...you may only approach approved people...you have too much money and too much fame to make a valid contribution...you aren't "left enough" for us.

I agree. Who said that?

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 12 November 2003 03:59 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You agree with the sentiment, or that it's a problem in activist circles?

Edited to add: as far as the rest of it goes ... how is it that Bono has the power to influence people's perceptions of dirtbag political leaders, but is powerless to effect change in desirable ways? Or is it just that the guy's got all this influence when he does something you don't like, like glad-handing right wing politicians, but in all other respects is powerless to influence public opinion in good ways?

quote:
No, it won't get him elected but it won't hurt his chances either

Okay, so now he doesn't have any influence, it seems. If that's the case, who cares what he does?

[ 12 November 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 12 November 2003 04:09 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What the hell:

...:because after being one of the coolest, promising and distinctive rock bands of the '80's, U2 ended that phase of their career with "Rattle and Hum" and became, yawn, whatever it is that they are now.

Edited to add: ...and I blame Bono.

If his hob-nobbing with biwigs is helping, great! If not, didn't he sing (most realistically IMO): "I don't believe that rock and roll is gonna change the world" --or something to that effect (my Rattle and Hum CD was stolen)?

[ 12 November 2003: Message edited by: Sisyphus ]


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 12 November 2003 04:13 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
and became, yawn, whatever it is that they are now.

Another souless pop band?

[ 12 November 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 12 November 2003 04:53 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rebecca, here is a good example for you since it is difficult to grasp: I am not a rock star, I have no influence of any sort with anyone and yet, despite that, Paul Martin won't even let me near his coronation never mind be photogrpahed with him. Can ya beleive it? Why the hell not?

I was on the phone with his people just 30 mins. ago and I said, "what gives? I'm a nobody. I can't help get Paul elected. Why won't he see me. I have a very important message about AIDS in Africa." And do you know what his press secretary said? Do you? He said "Mr. Martin is too busy to meet with everyone. Perhaps Mr. Chretien can accomodate you."

Can ya beleive it?

You have to wonder how Bono got let in. I mean with no more influence than me.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 12 November 2003 05:05 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
Do you remember Bono here for the G-8 in Alberta? He added a credibility where there wasn't one.

Actually, I don't remember Bono here for the G-8. I do remember Bruce Cockburn playing in Riley Park at a gathering the City tried to use every trick available to ensure it couldn't go ahead. Are you sure you aren't getting something mixed-up?

[ 13 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 12 November 2003 05:35 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wingnut...I'm a big fan of sarcasm. Really. But don't you ever get tired of using it to replace logic and consistency in an argument?

Political influence. That is, of course, what I mean, what everyone on all sides is referring to, so let's just ditch the stupidity about who hangs out with who and the optics thereof. If the guy has no real political influence, either way, which seems to be agreed upon by many, including you according to your previous post, why should we care what he does? Worst case scenario, an imporant cause gets some publicity. What's the problem?


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 12 November 2003 06:05 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If you provide me with logic and consistency I will stick with it.

But you argue he has no influence and yet here we are dedicating an entire thread to him indicating he does have influence.

And the point of my sarcasm (and no I don't get tired of using it) is to show without influence he wouldn't even be welcome.

There is a question, yes, of the degree of influence. But certainly there is influence.

And if you didn't twist my words, re: degree of influence, to suit your argument I would have no need to resort to sarcasm.

quote:
Actually, I don't remember Bono here for the G-8.
Was he actually there? I don't know. There was a lot of talk that both he and Geldof would be there and, in fact, Geldof siad they would be theer. But were they? I don't know I stopped paying attention.
Story here

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 12 November 2003 09:19 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But you argue he has no influence and yet here we are dedicating an entire thread to him indicating he does have influence.
Alot of people are arguing that Bono influences how people see the politicians he's schmoozing with, but in the same breath are saying he's having no effect in influencing how people think about the various issues he's on about.

I actually don't think his photo-ops make much of a difference as far as public opinion goes, because he's schmoozing with people who're already in power...they don't really need much from him, nor he from them. It's just a bit of gratuitious PR on both sides. But I do think he can provide some visibility for issues that need it. That's where he does have some political currency in the arena of public opinion.

quote:
And if you didn't twist my words, re: degree of influence, to suit your argument I would have no need to resort to sarcasm

Oh, I forced you to resort to sarcasm? Oh pleeeeease. Do you want me to start quoting all the sneering sarcastic posts you've made on babble? I could fill a whole fucking forum with threads consisting of nothing but your smartass, sarcastic remarks.
quote:
Was he actually there? I don't know. There was a lot of talk that both he and Geldof would be there and, in fact, Geldof siad they would be theer. But were they? I don't know I stopped paying attention.
But didn't you post this:
quote:
C'mon Rebecca, sure it does. Do you remember Bono here for the G-8 in Alberta? He added a credibility where there wasn't one. Middle-class Canadians could go to bed knowing the plight of AIDS wracked Africa would finally get a fair hearing because Chretien and Bono told them so.
Maybe Bono should pay you a visit, and loan you a bit of his *cough* credibility.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Performance Anxiety
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3474

posted 12 November 2003 09:34 PM      Profile for Performance Anxiety        Edit/Delete Post
Hey, I found Bono's [URL=http://www.datadata.org/contactus.htm?1068686680420]DATA Organisation[/URL.]

My advice: if you think Bono should cancel his appearance for political reasons (why would an activist want to be associated with a crony like Martin?), contact his agency and tell them what you think. Why not link them up to articles about how Martin scammed Canadians with his shipping line? DATA can be reached at:

General info@data.org

To contact DATA Europe, email datauk@data.org

For press enquiries please email press@data.org

US press may call 202-639-8010

European press may contact DATA Europe at: datauk@data.org

Post any messages you send here - I'd love to see 'em! Have fun!

[ 13 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: Outside of the box | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 12 November 2003 10:05 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Maybe Bono should pay you a visit, and loan you a bit of his *cough* credibility.



Sarcasm takes a bit of work. Any fool can be an asshole, Becky.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
banquosghost
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4520

posted 12 November 2003 11:44 PM      Profile for banquosghost     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is a waste of time Rebecca. Wingnut is anti-power and anti-celebrity. So whatever power or celebrity attempt is self-serving and corrupt by definition. Doesn't matter who they are or what they attempt.

He really is a wingnut.


From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mick
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2753

posted 12 November 2003 11:53 PM      Profile for Mick        Edit/Delete Post
I for one can't stand those stupid fucking blue shooting glasses he wears. I mean where the hell does he think he is? The rifle range?
From: Parkdale! | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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Babbler # 3807

posted 13 November 2003 12:25 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wingy, Rebecca.

Is this Mr. Bono worth all the aggro?

After all, even Cher dumped him for the Allman Bros.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 13 November 2003 08:26 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Wingnut is anti-power and anti-celebrity. So whatever power or celebrity attempt is self-serving and corrupt by definition. Doesn't matter who they are or what they attempt.

And so you are pro-power and pro-celebrity and by defibnition whatever power and celebrity does is absolutely right?

Having never met you know so much about me. Or maybe like some other babblers you prefer sanctimonious value judgements to fact.

quote:
He really is a wingnut.

So original.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 13 November 2003 09:56 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by banquosghost:
Wingnut is anti-power and anti-celebrity.


But but but ... WingNut is a celebrity.

"He really is a wingnut" -- yes, but he's our WingNut.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 13 November 2003 11:17 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm more disapponted in Sloan and Ron Sexsmith and Daniel Lanois.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 13 November 2003 11:31 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by audra estrones:
I'm more disapponted in Sloan and Ron Sexsmith and Daniel Lanois.

Wha??! Those guys are going to be serenading the Liberals?

From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 13 November 2003 11:34 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
yeah.

also: this is the thread where you all forgot how to use the "quote" function. Dudes. I just had to edit about 5 messages.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 13 November 2003 11:37 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Wingy, Rebecca.

Is this Mr. Bono worth all the aggro?

After all, even Cher dumped him for the Allman Bros.


Now THAT's funny.

Truly, I don't really give much of a crap about U2, Bono, or any celeb that wants to allieviate their privilege-guilt by supporting various causes (though, in truth, alot of celebs are very quiet about what they lend support to, and maybe that's the way to go). More power to 'em. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 13 November 2003 12:16 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm more disapponted in Sloan and Ron Sexsmith and Daniel Lanois.

We can assume that by now Daniel Lanois has become used to his own power and privilege. When wearing his production hat his rates are one hundred thousand dollars per hour.

Short of becoming a Jehovah's Witness Ron Sexsmith can do no wrong. Okay, if he starts shilling for the Alliance Party I'll look into getting some electricity.

To zap his beautiful songs from my head.

The guy is one of the best songwriters of all time and he's about as known as fIREHOSE* in this country.

*shameless plug.


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
babbler/dabbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4633

posted 13 November 2003 01:12 PM      Profile for babbler/dabbler        Edit/Delete Post
Celebrity is a disease based on admiration for anyone who has amasses great wealth.
Some say it is envy, some a feeling that their own effort to attain the same status has been unrequited and others that it is identification via association.

Someone on the thread asked "why should I care?
Another "what has been achieved by Bono's cozying up to the politicans.
Maybe we need to know how much Bono has personally "invested" in any of these great causes.
If all the celebrities who have said they care put 10% of their enormous annual incomes into the hands of the front line organizations, the problem would be much alleviated if not gone.
But they probally make more money being "visible" just talking about it. I'm with the skeptics on this one.


From: Nova Scotia | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 13 November 2003 01:27 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Celebrity is a disease based on admiration for anyone who has amasses great wealth.
Not all celebrity is based on wealth. Some of it's based on notoriety, some on accomplishment, but my guess is if it isn't, it's certainly one way of achieving wealth. Probably equal parts envy and admiration go into why people fawn over celebrities (I'm trying to think of at least one I envy or admire...I admire certain achievements of some celebrities...hmmm).

I know of a few pop stars, pro athletes, and other celebs who financially support a number of causes, but I don't think any dollar figures, or income percentile's have been published for these folks. Anyone know what Bono's charitable write-offs look like?


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 13 November 2003 01:43 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The problem isn't exactly the celebrities themselves, especially when their celebrity is based on genuine accomplishment -- and that happens, oddly if unusually enough.

(Hi, Michael Ondaatje! Nothing personal here. Love your books -- Billy and Skin of a Lion will live for all time, and I like that thought.)

To me, the problem with North American celebrity culture is North American celebrity culture. We can all see what it does to each new generation. The vast majority of people who go through North American high schools, watch NA TV, and listen to NA music learn to live self-conscious, insecure, and yearning for fantasies. They just plain do.

That is a political problem.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 13 November 2003 01:45 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey, what's wrong with yearning for fantasies? I sometimes really wish I lived in the Federation utopia of Star Trek, even though Babylon 5 was a better show.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Performance Anxiety
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3474

posted 13 November 2003 01:47 PM      Profile for Performance Anxiety        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I for one can't stand those stupid fucking blue shooting glasses he wears.

Oi! How do you know they aren't Optative Glasses???


From: Outside of the box | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 13 November 2003 01:50 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh! That must explain why they look so annoying! I guess optative theatricians can get rich too. For theatrical purposes...of course...
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 13 November 2003 02:14 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The vast majority of people who go through North American high schools, watch NA TV, and listen to NA music learn to live self-conscious, insecure, and yearning for fantasies. They just plain do.

That is a political problem.


You are so right.
quote:
I sometimes really wish I lived in the Federation utopia of Star Trek, even though Babylon 5 was a better show.
Was not.

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
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posted 13 November 2003 02:20 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Was too! Star Trek was either cowboyish or syrupy. Disconnected episodes whose main attraction was the very utopian quality of the characters, who rarely ever faced a bad ending to a plot. Babylon 5 had that extra shot of epic darkness, as well as a connected story line. Naturally, any sane person wishes to live in the Star Trek world, but Babylon 5 simply had a better plot.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 13 November 2003 02:23 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Freedominion beat you to this discussion

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15798&highlight=star+trek


http://my.voyager.net/~jayjo/sfview.htm


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 13 November 2003 02:28 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Naturally, any sane person wishes to live in the Star Trek world, but Babylon 5 simply had a better plot.
I agree about the plot being better, and you'll notice that the plotline of the new Enterprise series resembles Babylon 5. I think you're forgetting how deeply awful the first season of Babylon 5 was.

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
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posted 13 November 2003 02:34 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
HF: We have, in fact, had this discussion before on babble. Too lazy to dig it up.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 13 November 2003 02:52 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
RW: I realize that the acting was bad in the first season, but I still enjoyed Sinclair as a character ("There is a hole in your mind!"), and the first season's episode plots were way better than most Trek episodes. It built up very well to the main plot in the next three seasons.

Enterprise's plot sucks. I'm sorry, it does very little that Babylon 5 did well. Babylon 5 only brought in real time travel in season 4...after justifying it very early on. Planned. The 'temporal cold war' of Enterprise is just an ST gadget thing.

What Enterprise had the potential to do was to highlight intercultural contact, since it's supposed to be about Earth's first forays into limited-FTL-reachable space. It occasionally did this, but not as much as I would have liked.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 13 November 2003 04:05 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What Enterprise had the potential to do was to highlight intercultural contact, since it's supposed to be about Earth's first forays into limited-FTL-reachable space. It occasionally did this, but not as much as I would have liked.

Yabbut, when they do, you can smell the budget overexpenditures...they go all out on set design, etc. And I really like how they're emulating big screen cinematography in their action sequences.

They can't afford to do every episode like that. Last night's episode was a cheapo one, for sure. It blew.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 13 November 2003 04:12 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's possible to do "minimal" first contact. Even just better explore the human/Vulcan thing without resorting to cleavage.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 13 November 2003 04:20 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It wouldn't be schlocky sci-fi without cleavage
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 13 November 2003 04:25 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wish Voyager had more clevage. 7 of 9 rawarr!
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 13 November 2003 04:33 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry to be a party pooper, but I prefer my SF to be less shlocky.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3674

posted 13 November 2003 04:45 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm more disapponted in Sloan and Ron Sexsmith and Daniel Lanois

tom tomorrow has a great cartoon back in 1992: al gore invited lou reed to perform at his vice-presidential inaugural ball, and tomorrow's line was "we can't figure out what was stranger, that he was asked ... or that he accepted", and the cartoon visual was lou reed singing "shiny shiny boots of leather" and tipper going "al, i just love the old classics"


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sine Ziegler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 225

posted 13 November 2003 09:12 PM      Profile for Sine Ziegler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Uhm, with all due respect to your thread and your hatred for Bono, Kingblake....

WHAT TIME IS BONO going to be on TV Live?!?!?!?!??!!?


From: Calgary | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 13 November 2003 10:03 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873

posted 14 November 2003 10:08 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Speaking of rock stars and their causes, the 2nd Annual Joe Strummer (The Clash) Tribute is Saturday December 6th at the Horseshoe Tavern in Toronto. I went to last year's, and it was a blast.

At the request of his family, proceeds go to the Joe Strummer Memorial Forest, on the Isle of Skye (we raised enough to buy 60 trees last year). PM me if you want more info.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 14 November 2003 10:40 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sounds like a good event.

This thread is too long.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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