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Author Topic: The Capped Crusader II
majorvictory
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posted 07 October 2003 12:24 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
er, let's try this again. The thread is about Michael Moore, his opinions and your opinions about Mike and his opinions, OK?


Davis can win, Moore-style

quote:
The governor needs a Capra-esque epiphany, and he needs it in the next hour


I am one of the few people who truly knows what Gray Davis is going through this week because I too once had to go through a recall election. And I won.
I believe there is still the crazy chance he can too.

Long before I was making movies or writing books or going after elected officials, I was an elected official. In fact, I held the record as the youngest officeholder in the country. Just months after the 26th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was passed, I was elected, at the age of 18, to a seat on the Board of Education in the school district where I lived in Michigan. I was still a senior in high school, and the idea of becoming the boss of the high school principal was just too good to pass up.

The day after my election, the assistant principal changed my name from "Hey, you!" to "Mr. Moore," and suddenly I realized I was in a place where maybe I could do some good.

Within nine months, the principal and assistant principal had handed in their resignations. As a school board member, I pushed for student rights, funding arts and music over sports and making sure that the board was beholden to the parents and students and not the business community. This did not endear me to the Chamber of Commerce. When the board tried to hand out no-bid contracts, I went to the state attorney general. When it tried to hold secret meetings, I called the prosecutor. And, when I made a motion that a new elementary school in this all-white district be named after Martin Luther King Jr., the Republicans in town had seen enough and took out recall petitions to have me removed.



[ 09 October 2003: Message edited by: majorvictory ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Foxer
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posted 07 October 2003 12:31 AM      Profile for Foxer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So - therefore anyone who faces recall is actually a misunderstood defender of the people?

Campbell won his campeign too, as i recall. er.. i mean, as i remember.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 07 October 2003 02:31 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, no. That's what Moore is saying. Davis is losing his battle because he isn't a defender of the people at all, and if he wants to win it he'd damn well better become one right-quick-like.

But it won't matter. Nobody will believe him now. Too little, too late, too bad for California.

Ha! Just got stabbed by flood control for the second time ever. Audra, you clever little minx, you, my cheque will be forthcoming. I've been meaning to donate for ages anyhow.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 07 October 2003 02:42 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So far, so good!
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 08 October 2003 12:32 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Face it, you'll never be rich

quote:
Why do Americans still believe in the rags-to-riches fairy tale? In this final extract from his explosive new book, Michael Moore explains why the corporate bosses will never let the American dream become a reality

Tuesday October 7, 2003
The Guardian

Perhaps the biggest success in the war on terror has been its ability to distract the nation from the corporate war on us. In the two years since the attacks of 9/11, American businesses have been on a punch-drunk rampage that has left millions of average Americans with their savings gone and their pensions looted, their hopes for a comfortable future for their families diminished or extinguished. The business bandits (and their government accomplices) who have wrecked our economy have tried to blame it on the terrorists, they have tried to blame it on Clinton, and they have tried to blame it on us.
But, in fact, the wholesale destruction of our economic future is based solely on the greed of the corporate mojahedin.

The takeover has happened right under our noses. We've been force-fed some mighty powerful "drugs" to keep us quiet while we're being mugged by this lawless gang of CEOs. One of these drugs is called fear and the other is called Horatio Alger.

The fear drug works like this: you are repeatedly told that bad, scary people are going to kill you, so place all your trust in us, your corporate leaders, and we will protect you. But since we know what's best, don't question us if we want you to foot the bill for our tax cut, or if we decide to slash your health benefits or jack up the cost of buying a home. And if you don't shut up and toe the line and work your ass off, we will sack you - and then just try to find a new job in this economy, punk!



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 08 October 2003 12:49 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Man, I love Michael Moore. He's awfully smart.
From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 08 October 2003 02:21 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by majorvictory:
Face it, you'll never be rich


Depressing, somewhat, but very true. Catering to the wealthy on the off-chance that you might become one is very dumb.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 09 October 2003 07:36 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

quote:
Friday, October 3rd, 2003
Michael Moore's New Book, "Dude Where's My Country?" Hits the Streets This Tuesday


I have written a new book, and this Tuesday it's being released. It's called, "DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY?" Because its content is likely to upset more than a few people, the publisher has "embargoed" the book until midnight Monday (which means no store or media outlet or anyone has access to a copy of the book until then).

They have taken these measures because I have written a book that seeks not to defeat the Bush people next year, but to have them removed from Washington right now. I know, I'm not asking for much. But I have spent the better part of the past year researching and writing this new book, and when you read it you'll see why the current criminal investigation of the White House for outing a CIA agent in revenge is, in my opinion, just the tip of the iceberg. I can only hope that my book will make a small contribution toward that day when we'll see one long perp walk of administration officials in handcuffs being led out of the White House and into a waiting paddy wagon. Like I said, I'm not asking for much.

"Dude, Where's My Country?" is also my humble attempt to violate the Patriot Act on every single page of the book. And, I have learned that many want to get on John Ashcroft's evildoer list with me. There are already a record number of orders from bookstores across the country. The first printing alone is almost one million copies (my last book's first printing was 50,000). Chapters include "Oil's Well That Ends Well," "The United States of BOO!", "How to Talk to Your Conservative Brother-in-law," and more. (Click here to see the cover that will win me a free ticket to Gitmo)

If you get the New York Times, you may have noticed a mysterious ad for the past four days in the Arts section. Each day, the ad simply asks a new, pointed question of Mr. Bush. They are questions from my new book, from a chapter entitled, "Seven Questions for George of Arabia." We are running one ad each day until the book comes out on Tuesday. In case you've missed them, here are the first four:

Dear Mr. Bush, is it true that the bin Ladens have had business relations with you and your family off and on for the past 25 years?
Dear "Mr. President," what is the "special relationship" between the Bushes and the Saudi royal family?
Dear "Mr. President," who attacked the United States on September 11th—a guy on dialysis from a cave in Afghanistan, or our friends, the Saudi Arabians?
Dear "Mr. President," why did you allow a private Saudi jet to fly around the U.S. in the days after September 11th and pick up members of the bin Laden family and then fly them out of the country without a proper investigation by the FBI?
In my book, I provide some of the answers and all of the background evidence. It is astounding, and it is criminal. Will there be one Democrat in Congress willing to begin the investigation?

After the book's release, I take off on a 30-city tour over 25 days. Many of these dates are already sold-out, so check my website first to see where you can find me. I will also be on the "Today Show" on Tuesday, and "The View" and "Conan" on Wednesday.

You may want to stay in touch with my website as I'll be putting up a lot of new stuff over the next few days and weeks. I'm also planning to keep a diary of my tour, complete with photos from the road.

For me, this is the kickoff of a 12-month campaign for regime change in Washington, DC. I hope you can join me and the millions of other Americans who are committed to Bush Removal in '04. "Dude, Where's My Country?" is my guidebook on how to create a majority of sane Americans who are increasingly fed up and want their country back.

I hope to see you somewhere across this great land in the next month.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
mike@michaelmoore.com

PS. As I head into the release of this new book, I want to thank EVERYONE who read "Stupid White Men" and made it the largest selling non-fiction hardcover book of the year. It is now in its 53rd printing in the U.S., with over 4 million copies sold worldwide. This success only strengthens my resolve that things are getting better and we are not alone.

PPS. For my friends outside the U.S., "Dude, Where's My Country?" is being published in over four dozen countries this autumn. In the UK and Ireland, it's coming out this Tuesday. That's one of the perks you get when one of you are in the Coalition of the Willing!



From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 09 October 2003 09:28 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just sent Mike an email to urge him to extend his book tour northward. I have fond memories of his last appearance in Toronto during his hyper-extended tour for stupid white men. He presented an excerpt from Bowling For Columbine (pre-final cut, pre-Cannes, etc), verbally duelled with the single heckler in the 1400+ audience, sang bilingual renditions of O Canada, and much more.

Anyone who wants to help me draft Mike for another venture into the great white north can send your pleas to :

mike@michaelmoore.com

Let Mike know he will be made very welcome!


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 17 October 2003 12:00 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dude, Where’s My Country? – Democracy Now! Interviews Documentary Filmmaker, Television Producer and Author Michael Moore

quote:
We spend the hour with Michael Moore talking about his latest book Dude, Where’s My Country?, Bush’s connections to the Bin Ladens and the candidacy of Wesley Clark for president

Last night in the Chicago area, some 1500 people greeted Moore with a standing ovation. The cheers only grew louder when he held up a Cubs baseball cap.

But the cheers soon turned into boos when Moore raised a hat of the Florida Marlins who are facing the Cubs in the baseball playoffs.

Then Moore began his speech saying, "Thank you. I just wanted to relive my Oscar night."

Moore was booed at the 2003 Academy Awards when, during his acceptance speech for the Best Documentary Award for "Bowling For Columbine," he called President Bush's election and justifications for the war in Iraq "fictitious."

Michael Moore is on a 33-city tour promoting his new book, Dude, Where's My Country? Almost 1 million copies hit bookshelves on Oct. 7.

His previous book, Stupid White Men: And Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation, which was almost pulled by the publisher after September 11th, has sold more than 4 million copies and became the best-selling non-fiction book of 2002.

Moore also said, it is especially important for Americans to "push candidates to take the right positions" before the primary elections.

Although Moore has failed to endorse any of the five Democratic candidates who have approached him, he admitted he does like the idea of having Howard Dean, a doctor, and General Wesley Clark, a general, on the ballot. He said, “We need a doctor because there are 43 million of us without health care and we need a general to kick Bush's ass."



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blue Eyed Soul
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posted 17 October 2003 08:51 PM      Profile for Blue Eyed Soul   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
moore is a jackass. he just rambles on, lying and decieving and making totally irrelevant points.

i think it's sad that this guy is like, the people's icon of the american left. he's only a shade more respectable then W. himself in my book.

the guy has no idealology and no knowledge of 90% of the stuff he talks about. he's a complete goof.


From: under the daytime sky | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
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posted 17 October 2003 09:21 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, I went and bought Dude, Where's My Country? Moore, like, well, me, draws heavily from the U.S. media to support his points, with all the biases that implies. To say his work is unreferenced, however, is a calumny, especially with respect to this book. "Notes and Sources" - which I actually also read - takes up pages 219 to 246. This doesn't include Chapter 1, where the sources are given in footnotes.

All quotes that I've found in the book are sourced. Bush quotes are generally sourced to www.whitehouse.gov, and it'd be kind of hard for Bush to argue that this particular site misrepresents him, I imagine...

The list of newspapers is familiar to me, 'cause I've used many or most myself. The New York Times and Washington Post head the list, of course. Newsweek, Financial Times, The Observer, The Nation, Time, Washington Monthly, LA Weekly, Counterpunch, Christian Science Monitor, etc etc etc. Some of those he uses in the book we kvetched about on Babble at the time they first appeared, like Wolfowitz' comments to Vanity Fair.

He also seems to have read rather a number of Justice Department reports, using www.findlaw.com. He refers the reader to them by section. Since he made it so easy, I ran a quick check on two of these, which were where he said, and said what he quoted. Gotta love the Web.

Chapter 6 is unsourced, mostly because it's all comedy/opinion. But a lot of the rest is heavily fact-based.

For our convenience, footnote the first tells me, he has many source articles in full at www.michaelmoore.com. They're there, under the "must read" section, but as it's in blog format, it takes a bit of searching to turn up the original article. I found it a heck of a lot easier just to go to Yahoo! news and plug in the titles given in the footnotes, which would serve up the articles from their original sites. Some of these, like Time, were for-pay archives, but the blurbs and such were enough to confirm the gist.

It ain't Noam Chomsky, but it ain't fluff, either. I'm favorably impressed.

[ 18 October 2003: Message edited by: April Follies ]


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 20 October 2003 07:56 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So BES, very simple request for you. Could you give a couple examples on where he lies? I think that's the least you could do after making such meaningful, well thought out, well-informed statements as you have above.
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Blue Eyed Soul
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posted 20 October 2003 08:10 PM      Profile for Blue Eyed Soul   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, in all fairness to Moore, I'm only familiar with one of his works, "Bowling for Columbine" and as far as lies and deceptions go in that movie...

well, why say it yourself when somebody else has already said it for you?

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

please refer to that site for all kinds of interesting "corrections" to Moore's latest multi-million dollar venture.

glad I could be helpful.


From: under the daytime sky | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 20 October 2003 08:17 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Moore is pretty cool. He's very funny, he often cuts to the heart of issues. But he also often seems to shoot from the hip, and when he does he sometimes nails his foot. And unfortunately, he rarely if ever seems to change his mind.

Specifically, I really wish he'd quit backing that asshole Clark just because he's a general. And I'm rather pissed off that he thinks Mumia killed that cop, even if it is just a flippant talking point for dealing with rednecks. Any reasonable look at the evidence leads to the conclusion that there's no way in Hell Mumia killed that cop.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 21 October 2003 12:20 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bush whacking

quote:
Author Moore blasts war, Patriot Act

David Mirhadi

President George W. Bush and the U.S. military have been unable to locate Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein since the start of the Iraqi war last spring.

That didn't stop political satirist, author and filmmaker Michael Moore from bringing the al-Qaida leader and Iraqi despot to the sold-out Grass Valley Veterans Hall Friday during a nationwide tour to promote Moore's new book, "Dude, Where's My Country?"

OK, so Moore brought life-size cutouts. He told the crowd of more than 900 that Bush's drive to oust both has destroyed America's psyche, needlessly resulting in hundreds of casualties of innocent American men and women.

The cutouts simply add to the ridiculousness of the Bush administration's single-minded drive to prolong the war, Moore said.

"I tell you, traveling with these guys on the road ... the funniest thing is (carrying) them on the plane."

Moore spent Friday evening skewering the White House, right-wing radio commentators and angry white men.

"These angry white guys are angry because their days are numbered," Moore said, dressed in his trademark T-shirt and jeans, a logo ballcap perched atop his head. Moore said right-wing individuals already own mainstream media and front most talk shows.

"What are they so angry about? They've got everything."

Moore suggested most polls show Americans lean left, supporting abortion rights, stronger environmental laws, unions and higher wages.

"If the Pacifica Foundation owned NBC, and Mario Cuomo and Jesse Jackson were on the Supreme Court ... if we had all that, all our lives would be filled with joy," he said, sparking the crowd to roar its support.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 23 October 2003 12:18 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
George of Arabia: The unholy alliance between the Bushes and the Saudis

quote:
By Michael Moore

I'm not into conspiracy theories, except the ones that are true or involve dentists. I believe that all dentists must have gotten together at some point and decided that the real money was in root canals and full sets of X-rays every time you go in. No other mammal in the animal kingdom has to go through this.
The questions I have about the attacks on September 11th, however, are not about how the terrorists got past our defense system, or how they were able to live in this country and never be detected, or how all the Bulgarians who worked at the World Trade Center got a secret communique to not show up to work that day, or how the towers came down so easily when they were supposedly built to withstand earthquakes, tsunamis and truck bombs in their parking garage. These were all questions that a special commission investigating September 11th was supposed to answer. But the very formation of that commission was opposed by the Bush administration and Republicans in Congress. Reluctantly, they finally agreed -- but then they tried to block the investigative body from doing its job by stonewalling it on the evidence it sought.

Why wouldn't the Bush people want to find out the truth? What were they afraid of? That the American people would learn that they screwed up, that they were asleep at the wheel when it came to terrorist threats, that they belligerently ignored the warnings from outgoing Clinton officials about Osama bin Laden simply because they hated Clinton (Sex! Bad!)?

The American people are a forgiving lot. They didn't hold it against Franklin Roosevelt when Pearl Harbor was bombed. They didn't shun John F. Kennedy over the Bay of Pigs fiasco. And they still don't care that Bill Clinton had those forty-seven people mysteriously murdered. So why, after this monumental breakdown of national security, does George W. Bush not come clean, or, at the very least, stop preventing the truth from coming out?

Perhaps it's because George & Co. have a lot more to hide beyond why they didn't scramble the fighter jets fast enough on the morning of September 11th. And maybe we, the people, are afraid to know the whole truth because it could take us down roads where we don't want to go.




From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 24 October 2003 09:44 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
“Mr. Wolfowitz, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Rumsfeld, You Hate Our Troops and You've Sent Them Off To Die So Your Friends Can Get Rich” – An Hour With Michael Moore

quote:
Michael Moore speaking at San Francisco State University on October 20, 2003:

"If we leave this election up this year to the Democratic Party hacks, we're doomed. We are doomed. We are doomed for another four years of Bush. He will win his first term next November. All right? The only thing -- I mean, I'm telling you -- we have got to get in charge of this thing?

"There is not going to be a third party independent candidate this year. There's only going to be that spot on the ballot, the Democratic slot. They don't deserve to have that slot, they haven't earned it, they haven't been the true opposition party, so we have to go in there and hijack that slot. We have to hijack that slot, and the way it's going to happen is we have got to make sure that the right candidate gets on that ballot…the good news is that there are enough of these Democrat candidates that are running that can give us 60, 70, 80% of what we want…I have not endorsed anyone, nor will I endorse anyone right now.

"I'm encouraging others, don't endorse, don't throw down with somebody right now because each of these Democrats have to take better positions and stronger positions on the issue. We should not -- on the issues -- we should not have to settle. Let's not settle, folks. Don't do this, because, look, we hold the power right now. We have the leverage, okay? These candidates need us now more than we need them. All right, we have got to -- we have got to use this leverage wisely. We have got to push them to take better positions.

"I don't think it's healthy right now in the fall of '03 to be in the ‘anyone but Bush camp.’ Don't take that position right now. You don't have to. We're a year away. You don't have to take the position of ‘anyone but Bush.’ All right? If you do that, it sends the wrong message to the Democrats that, we're so desperate to get rid of Bush, we'll take anything they shovel us, all right? No, we won't. So, don't take that position."



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 01 November 2003 04:09 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Aaron McGruder's Right to Be Hostile

quote:
by Michael Moore

I can't remember what those kids were doing in the first Boondocks comic I saw, but I do remember exactly what passed through my mind when I read it: "How the hell did this get into a daily newspaper?"

I stopped reading the comics page a long time ago. It seems that whoever is in charge of what to put on that page is given an edict that states: "For God's sake, try to be as bland as possible and by no means offend anyone!" Thus, whenever something like Doonesbury would come along, it would be continually censored and, if lucky, eventually banished to the editorial pages. The message was clear: Keep it simple, keep it cute and don't be challenging, outrageous or political.

And keep it white!

It's odd, considering all the black ink that goes into making up the comics section (and color on Sundays) that you rarely see any black faces on that page. Well, maybe it's not so odd after all, considering the makeup of most newsrooms in our country. It is even more stunning when you consider that in many of our large cities like New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, where the white population is barely a third of the overall citizenry, the comics pages seem to be one of the last vestiges of the belief that white faces are just...well, you know...so much more happy and friendly and funny!

Of course, the real funnies are on the front pages of most papers these days. That's where you can see a lot of black faces. The media love to cover black people on the front page. After all, when you live in a society that will lock up about 30 percent of all black men at some time in their lives and send more of them to prison than to college, chances are a fair number of those black faces will end up in the newspaper.


[ 01 November 2003: Message edited by: majorvictory ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 18 November 2003 02:42 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michael Moore: 'You need to show that the people of Britain don't support Bush'

quote:
By Ian Burrell, Media and Culture Correspondent
17 November 2003

You would have thought it would take something more extraordinary to trigger an outburst of unabashed US patriotism in the maverick film-maker Michael Moore than a traffic jam on the M6 outside Walsall. But after more than half-an-hour of the quintessentially British pastime of going nowhere on the motorway, Moore's gaze fixes on the free-flowing opposite carriageway.

"If you guys only drove on the other side of the road, that's the problem here," he says. "The American side over there is going by us at 70 miles an hour and we are stuck here." Moore is laughing but his good humour barely conceals a concern that the British public will be gripped by a similar inertia this week during the state visit of his President, George Bush.

The baseball-capped popular icon of Western opposition to the Iraq war is touring British cities, hoping to be the "advance guard" for mass protests against Mr Bush, who arrives in Britain tomorrow. "It's up to the British people to do their job in letting the American people know the British people don't support this war," Moore says.

The author of the best-selling critique of corporate America, Stupid White Men, says one of the "many lies" told by the US Government about the Iraq war (alongside claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and helped plan 9/11) was the suggestion that "the British are with us on this, the British are our allies and our friends".

This claim, Moore believes, will be reinforced if the President's state visit is allowed to proceed as the meticulously stage-managed event he believes is being planned as part of Mr Bush's strategy for winning next year's election.

"It is a photo-opportunity. With the Stars and Stripes and the Union Jacks flying in Pall Mall and the whole royal thing he is going to be treated to, this is all about trying to shore him up for next year," he says.

The President's London photo-opportunities, he hopes, will be tarnished. "That can happen only in one way, and that's a very large physical presence in the streets of London, letting the American people know the people of Great Britain do not support this war and do not support George Bush," he says. "It has to be done in a graphic way, in a physical way; it can't just be said. It has to be done with the images that will be sent back to America because the American media will be there with Bush."



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 November 2003 02:50 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But the author's popularity has brought with it cynicism. One commentator referred to Moore's audience as "fawning"; another suggested those who liked his work held a "black-and-white view of the world in which lefties like them are goodies and everyone else (especially Americans) stupid".

Gee, maybe we should pay attention. I mean, the commentators are the people who wrote the book on fawning and black-and-white views of the world, so they should know.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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