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Author Topic: Ed McMahon asks you to turn in your neighbours
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 27 March 2002 10:51 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OK, this description is off of a crank's website, however, as this and this and this and this and this and this seem to show, it has some basis in fact:

quote:
Now even US postage stamps will project the supremacy of American Imperial Power into the world. The new 57-cent stamp shows an eagle, which is an exact copy of the symbol of the Waffen SS, which in turn was taken from the Imperial Praetorian eagle of Ancient Rome. This is one of the first in a new series of postage stamps being released by the US Post Office to commemorate the New Age of State Power.

[...]
This same Imperial Eagle design on the new US 57-cent State Security stamp will also be used for the triangular arm badges given to those participating in the new Neighborhood Watch program.

The Neighborhood Watch program will be distributing $27 street signs and orange and black knit caps as well as arm badges. A new commercial with Ed McMahon, the new Department of Justice spokesman, is advertising this program on TV. He's the pitchman for the Neighborhood Watch and the Civilian Defense Force in the new so-called "public service" announcements.

The triangular arm badges are red, white, and blue and the words "Homeland Security" are above and the Imperial State Eagle design is in the center. These are the sinister origins of the symbolism of the Neighborhood Watch program.

It's designed to make you react subconsciously. When you look at the stamp close-up, it simply bespeaks of State Power. It says to anyone in the world that whatever country owns this stamp, that this stamp is a symbol of the Power of the State. It is meant to be an internal projection of State power, to serve as a warning to those who would dissent.

[...]

The commercials, narrated by Ed McMahon, suggest that you cooperate with the Neighborhood Watch Association and the Civilian Defense Force. You will be told how to spot "suspicious" characters or even people you might have known all your life, who are suddenly acting "out of character." Then the camera pans down a row of townhouses, and there's an American flag in front of every house. The voice-over says "inform the authorities of anything you see that's suspicious" and then the camera stops at the one house that doesn't have an American flag flying outside -- and then it continues to pan down the way. Then they show a picture of the Neighborhood Crime Watch representative with his orange and black State Security cap and the triangular Homeland Security Imperial State Power badge, holding a clipboard, smiling and asking questions. Then Mrs. Smith answers the door smiling.


Eagle represents US Imperial power

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: audra estrones ]

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 10:59 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Last week's Tom Tomorrow cartoon on the same subject
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 March 2002 11:09 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lordy.

At first I thought you were making this up, rasmus, but it turns out that Ashcroft is behind those (entirely real) ads. Lordy. Those whom the gods would make dangerous, first they infantilize.

I want to check out Al Martin's Roman history a bit. It certainly sounds coherent.


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Arch Stanton
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posted 27 March 2002 11:10 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yikes!

The stamp has an eerie resemblance, down to the art deco print font, to Nazi imagery. I suppose the ethos behind the new...initiatives, is eerily similar to totalitarianism as well.

Cheer up, though. As long as you think correct thoughts, say the right things, smile all the while and cheer on the forces of freedom and goodness, there's a parking spot in heaven with your name on it.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 March 2002 11:13 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's so true. The innocent have nothing to fear.
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Arch Stanton
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posted 27 March 2002 11:25 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I had a sense of mirth when I wrote the previous post. I was thinking that the US government is living up to its reputation, and that the citizenry is acting like sheep again. The good old smug Canadian sense of the innate superiority of British North America. The source of this feeling comes from the same place that makes "Talking to Americans" on 22 Minutes so funny.

Then I read some of what is written in the links of the initiating post on this thread.

I feel nausea now.

This isn't funny at all.

I do not think it alarmist to quote Winston Churchill here, and say that the USA is racing "into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science."


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 27 March 2002 11:35 AM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Look mummy, there's an aeroplane up in the sky"

Did you see the frightened ones?
Did you hear the falling bombs?
Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath a clear blue sky?

Goodbye Blue Sky, The Wall, Pink Floyd.

Now would be a good time to slam on the brakes folks.


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nate
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posted 27 March 2002 01:24 PM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Couple little details:

-the United States picked an eagle as their national symbol long before the SS ever existed - even back as far as the 1770s, the U.S. was using an eagle as part of their official seal

-the "symbol of the Waffen SS" was not an eagle, but a skull and crossbones - this insignia was called the "Death's Head" and was worn by officers on their hats

-the "national symbol" of the Nazis was not an eagle either, but the swastika

Methinks someone's imagination - not to mention their paranoia - is running wild with them ...

Nate H.


-the Now even US postage stamps will project the supremacy of American Imperial Power into the world. The new 57-cent stamp shows an eagle, which is an exact copy of the symbol of the Waffen SS, which in turn was taken from the Imperial Praetorian eagle of Ancient Rome.


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DrConway
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posted 27 March 2002 01:57 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The eagle was prominent in Nazi Germany, however, with the spreaded-wing eagle holding a wreathed swastika.

I'm -ing here as I struggle to believe that this isn't a joke.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 27 March 2002 02:02 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
-the "symbol of the Waffen SS" was not an eagle, but a skull and crossbones - this insignia was called the "Death's Head" and was worn by officers on their hats

Though the SS used the skull and cross bones the eagle was also found on caps.

It comes down to symbolism. The Swastika had been a cross found in many old religions. But the adoption by the Nazi party changed what that symbol means. Now when you see a Swastika, you think of Nazis or the skinhead/aryan/neo-nazi groups we have today.

The American bald eagle is a far cry from the eagle used on the stamp and the eagle used by the Nazis.


American Eagle

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Slick Willy ]


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Arch Stanton
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posted 27 March 2002 02:10 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
<http://www.wssob.com/insignia.html

This should clear up the argument. In any case, quibbles over which Nazis wore which logo arent really germane to the issue at hand.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 27 March 2002 02:14 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This may also help to clear up who wore what.

Uniforms and Militaria


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Briguy
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posted 27 March 2002 02:21 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I took a gander at the US Postal Services web site. They have a stamp with an American flag on it with the phrase "United we Stand", and "Heroes of 9-11" stamp with some FDNY and NYPD officers raising a US flag. Nothing frightening about those, to my mind. I couldn't find any big brother eagle stamps to add to my collection, however, so methinks this is a joke.

Changing the idea of neighbourhood watch (where you presumably join a coalition of your neighbours to watch for burglaries / break ins / feed each other's pets while away) to a neighbourhood spy program is a little scary. Do you think Bush et al realize that this is the message going out to Joe Citizen?


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 03:24 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here it is

http://shop.usps.com/images/01_fedeagle57_t.jpg

[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 03:32 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nate, as a writer, surely you are not denying the importance of style, allusion, resonance in determining the effect a depiction would have? Why this style, and not a naturalistic one, for example? *Isn't* the style militaristic? Doesn't it allude to a particular era of the past? Aren't there resonances? Whether the style serves to indicate the designer's intent or not is another thing, but it can nonetheless mesh with other cultural trends -- rampant militarism and the generally fascist aesthetics deployed elsewhere recently -- to be part of a disturbing pattern.

And yes, as others have pointed out, the eagle was indeed part of the SS insignia.

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


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Briguy
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posted 27 March 2002 03:33 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeeks! Now I am scared.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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posted 27 March 2002 03:36 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Frankly, I'm having trouble understanding what all the fuss is about. So the Neighbourhood Watch program is being drafted to keep a lookout on potential terrorist activities -- seems like a good idea to me.

The artwork chosen for the postage stamp may be in bad taste, but it's hardly a solid basis for building a Conspiracy Theory. And Ed MacMahon's commercials (which I haven't seen) sound like typical flag-waving American imagery, maybe a bit jingoist but what else is new? It's clear from the numerous links provided that the point is to root out terrorist threats, not mere lapses of patriotism.


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Chris Guenard
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posted 27 March 2002 03:37 PM      Profile for Chris Guenard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good stuff. Most enjoyable, good job rasmus_raven
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rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 03:39 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The artwork chosen for the postage stamp may be in bad taste, but it's hardly a solid basis for building a Conspiracy Theory.

Who's talking about conspiracy theories but you? Red Herring. My point is this, which I will quote again, in case you didn't get that it was my point when I said it earlier.

quote:
Nate, as a writer, surely you are not denying the importance of style, allusion, resonance in determining the effect a depiction would have? Why this style, and not a naturalistic one, for example? *Isn't* the style militaristic? Doesn't it allude to a particular era of the past? Aren't there resonances? Whether the style serves to indicate the designer's intent or not is another thing, but it can nonetheless mesh with other cultural trends -- rampant militarism and the generally fascist aesthetics deployed elsewhere recently -- to be part of a disturbing pattern.

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 03:47 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OK I'll grant -- as I already did -- that the original author of the website is a crank. But *I'm* not talking about a conspiracy theory. Not here (Over on the Berlusconi thread I am).
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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posted 27 March 2002 03:47 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
rasmus_raven, surely if there were a hidden agenda involving some kind of crypto-fascist movement, the very worst thing they could do would be to call attention to it with deliberate allusions to the Nazi regime.

Reminds me of a quote I remember (anybody know the origin?): "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 03:54 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You seem to have missed the part about not attributing it to anything at all. I'll quote that particular part again:

quote:
Whether the style serves to indicate the designer's intent or not is another thing, but it can nonetheless mesh with other cultural trends -- rampant militarism and the generally fascist aesthetics deployed elsewhere recently -- to be part of a disturbing pattern.

It doesn't matter whether the intent was malicious or merely stupid -- I doubt, frankly, whether the designer could have been so ignorant, but certainly the USPS could have been -- but it doesn't mean we shouldn't point out the obvious similarities and how they seem to be part of a growing pattern, one which is rather disturbing.

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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posted 27 March 2002 03:55 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, rasmus, you're not talking Conspiracy Theory. (I wrote my last post before reading yours.) So I guess I'm missing your point. Exactly what are you concerned about? Artistic merit? Incompetent advertising agencies?
From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 27 March 2002 03:57 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I hate repetition.
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DrConway
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posted 27 March 2002 04:07 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
...as certified by the Department of Redundancy Department.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 27 March 2002 04:48 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That is one mean-looking eagle. It could easily be part of a building designed by Speer. The idea of an official neighbourhood watch complete with armbands is just creepy.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 28 March 2002 02:58 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
At the time, this link wasn't working. Now it is. Stamp issue date: 9/20/2001 -- I assume it was designed ahead of time, unless it was a rush job.
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Arch Stanton
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posted 28 March 2002 03:22 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Exactly what are you concerned about?

If it looks like a duck..

If it talks like a duck...

If it walks like a duck...

I'm moving to Switzerland if the Marines start goose-stepping.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
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posted 28 March 2002 06:23 AM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post
I wonder if the post office realises how fascistic/Stalinistic that stamp looks? Can they be that naive?

And uniforms with armbands give me the willies. It reminds me too much of Hitler Youth.

Symbolism is very powerful, even more powerful than slogans and written propaganda. The people who designed these two things should have done a little more research.

[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: Andy Social ]


From: classified | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 28 March 2002 08:00 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Damn. I really like Art Deco. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that it appeals to some of our more dangerous wishes, but I admire it anyway. The thirties were interestingly conflicted times ...

Shortly after Pierre Trudeau died, John Bentley Mays published a long article in the National Post about the Trudeau mansion in Montreal, an Art Deco classic that is deceptively unobtrusive-looking from the street. Mays, as is his wont, got more than a little carried away drawing out what he certainly called the "fascist" aspirations of the interior monumentalism. There were splendid photos of the rooms and the furniture, and Mays was not exactly wrong in pointing out the feeling of aspiration they evoke/elicit, nor how disturbing that feeling can be. I still drew back from his claim that such art is automatically "fascist"; he is hardly a sympathetic observer of Trudeau anyway. Interesting piece it was, though.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
nate
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posted 28 March 2002 10:24 AM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Raven, I think you are getting very carried away with linking unrelated cultural/political incidents (dopey looking Art Deco eagle on U.S. stamp + use of eagle by Nazi SS = fascist takeover of America).

Having been to Washington D.C. I can report that most of the downtown federal buildings - including the J. Edgar Hoover FBI headquarters - look remarkably "Stalinistic" in design.

Far from being a sign that "1984" is upon us, the buildings simply reflect a generic architectural style known as "government bland" or "crappo office buildings designed by bureaucrats, paid for by public funds".

Hell, even some of the downtown buildings in Toronto look "totalitarian" in design (imposing pillars, huge interior spaces, monolithic facades). Union Station, for example, looks like something the Brownshirts would have held rallies in.

What does it mean? Nothing.

Again, as someone pointed out, if the U.S. federal government was planning a Night of the Long Knives or a fascist coup, why would they advertise the fact via postage stamps?

Nate H.
Toronto, ON


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 28 March 2002 10:32 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
F*ck the stamp already. I actually don't care so much about the stamp, I thought it was interesting though. I was more concerned about the neighborhood people with special caps and eagle armbands coming to other people's doors to interrogate them if they're insufficiently patriotic. I'm sure you'll agree this is slightly problematic.

As for the stamp, it merely fits with an increasingly common militaristic aesthetic and ethic. No more comment than that is necessary, and I don't think I suggested more.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 28 March 2002 01:17 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"I was more concerned about the neighborhood people with special caps and eagle armbands coming to other people's doors to interrogate them if they're insufficiently patriotic. I'm sure you'll agree this is slightly problematic."

What these neighbourhood committees don't know is that the original model for this is the Neighbourhood Committees run by the Communist Party of Cuba, to insure against subversion and foreign attack.

Sandinista Nicaragua had them, too. Of course, at the time, the US shouted that they were highly anti-democratic.


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WingNut
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posted 28 March 2002 01:23 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What makes this entirely laughable is the people who really intend to do harm will be the first to put up their flags, join the neighbourhood watch, and squeal on their non-conforming neighbours.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
NDB
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posted 28 March 2002 01:26 PM      Profile for NDB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
babble has conformometer, don't 'cha know, we should be safe.

Seriously this would be laughable it weren't downright scary. I'm thinking of all of the personal firearms in american households too. When I first read this I laughed and thought about an episode of the Simpsons, but sacks of doorknobs are way funnier than guns.


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DrConway
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posted 29 March 2002 02:23 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
F*ck the stamp already. I actually don't care so much about the stamp, I thought it was interesting though. I was more concerned about the neighborhood people with special caps and eagle armbands coming to other people's doors to interrogate them if they're insufficiently patriotic. I'm sure you'll agree this is slightly problematic.

You're joking. This is for real?

Alice in Wonderland had nothing on me, the way I feel right now. I feel like I've stepped into one of those fun-house mirror halls with mirrors at weird angles.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 29 March 2002 02:32 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
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posted 29 March 2002 06:09 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't think the resemblance to Nazi imagery here is an accident. It's far too obvious.

The USA is in nationalist conformity mode right now. Flag factories are producing at full capacity. The populace is drunk with nation-love.

Why not emulate that other zealous nation-state? The Nazis attached mystical significance to the Volk and the State. People in the USA don't repeat "God Bless America" for nothing - they've given their state divine blessing for decades.

The tyrrany of the majority and the urge to conform have always been powerful there, and the pressure on Germans under the Nazis to conform was strong as well.

Again, that picture of the bird is no accident.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
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posted 29 March 2002 07:13 PM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post
I always find it interesting that the people who brag the most about Freedom & Democracy(TM) in the U.S.A. are often the first to support restricting real freedom and democracy.

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: Andy Social ]


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Ron Webb
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posted 29 March 2002 07:39 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who's restricting freedom and democracy? They're suggesting that neighbours ought to keep an eye out for possible terrorist activity. Nobody, except on this thread, is talking about "insufficient patriotism".

Get a grip, folks!

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Webb ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 29 March 2002 08:27 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
When the advertisement indicates not conforming -- not having a flag on your doorstep --is "suspicious," what are they suggesting?
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 29 March 2002 08:47 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When the advertisement indicates not conforming -- not having a flag on your doorstep --is "suspicious," what are they suggesting?

The only place where the ads are characterized in this manner is the quoted material in the original post, which the poster himself indicates came from "some crank". None of the links provided actually point to that site, and the only link that leads to a description of the ads describes them much differently.

I'd be interested in knowing who the "crank" is before I got too excited. Is his site parody? Does he have his own agenda?


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
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posted 29 March 2002 09:56 PM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post
Okay, it would be best to get direct information about the commercial before we comment any further. It doesn't seem that far-fetched though.
It reminds me of the Cold War days when Americans were looking for reds under every bed.

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Ron Webb
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posted 29 March 2002 11:10 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's a link to the Neighbourhood Watch ads featuring Ed MacMahon. Four television commercials are posted, none of them even remotely resembling the one described at the top of this thread. (They're kinda cute, actually. )

I guess it's possible that there exists another, more sinister, series of ads for Neighborhood Watch, also featuring Ed MacMahon. It's also possible that we should all line our hats with tin foil, just in case. But until I see some solid evidence for either proposition, I'm not going to waste any more time on this.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 30 March 2002 01:24 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the links... that settles that. It's also possible that some ads were test run and yanked, however, it would be paranoid to think that.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 30 March 2002 02:47 AM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
That is one mean-looking eagle. - Doug

quote:
The eagle was prominent in Nazi Germany, however, with the spreaded-wing eagle holding a wreathed swastika. - DrConway

I traveled to Frankfurt in December, (whoever suggested fleeing to Switzerland should be aware that to get to Geneva by air one usually goes through Frankfurt) and everywhere I looked around the airport I saw that eagle, and combined with the 7'0'' guards with khaki brown coloured shirts and buzz cuts, I had the crap scared out of me. I was thinking Big Brother the whole time.

Yes, that is one hell of a frightening, intimidating eagle.


From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
freedom2002
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1309

posted 30 March 2002 11:28 AM      Profile for freedom2002     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
where've you all been ? don't you know the fascists won ww2 ? mc carthyism is alive and well and living in the offices of homeland defence.
From: calgary , alberta , canada | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2356

posted 30 March 2002 12:04 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
whoever suggested fleeing to Switzerland should be aware that to get to Geneva by air one usually goes through Frankfurt

Better Frankfurt than NYC.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
SamL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2199

posted 30 March 2002 05:13 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've been told though that it's much more pleasant to fly to Zurich and take the train to Geneva, but if you're going througha a travel agent, then that probably won't happen.
From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
damnyank
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2482

posted 03 April 2002 01:15 PM      Profile for damnyank     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Has anyone actually looked into the Neighborhood Watch Program or seen the ads? Tying this stamp to a new campaign to revitalize Neighborhood Watch programs is ridiculous.

The Neighborhood Watch program has been in existance for over thirty years and it is about crime prevention, not about spying on your neighbors. It's about reporting stranger persons in YOUR neighborhood doing something that is suspect...like loitering on a corner for hours (possible drug dealer?) or the like. It's not about turning someone in because they're not patriotic enough or some nonsense like that. It's about recognizing and reporting what can be vital information to the police. In context of terrorism, it's stuff like the guy in Boston who remembered the face of one of the gutless terrorists from a road-rage incident and reported the make and model of the car which lead to the car in Logan Airport, which contained a load of evidence.

Neighborhood Watch is undoubtedly one of the oldest and most well known crime prevention concepts in history. While the modern day concept of Neighborhood Watch came into prominence in the late 1960s in response to an increasing burglary rate, its roots in America can actually be traced all the way back to the days of Colonial settlements when night watchmen patrolled the streets.

The National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) took this crime prevention concept a step further by making it a national initiative -- the National Neighborhood Watch Program. The program was developed in response to a multitude of requests from Sheriffs and Police Chiefs around the country. Law enforcement leaders were looking for a crime prevention program that would incorporate citizen involvement, and that would address the increasing number of burglaries taking place, especially in rural and suburban residential areas.

Funding was sought and obtained from the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration in 1972, and thus, the National Neighborhood Watch Program was born. The first two years of the program were devoted to disseminating information on the nature and volume of burglary, and providing information on how to secure residential property and make it less vulnerable to break-ins. From there, it evolved to promoting the establishment of ongoing local neighborhood watch groups where citizens could work in conjunction with their law enforcement agencies in an effort to reduce burglaries and other neighborhood crimes.

Throughout the years, Neighborhood Watch has grown from an "extra eyes and ears" approach to crime prevention to a much more proactive, community-oriented endeavor. Neighborhood Watch groups are now incorporating activities that not only address crime prevention issues, but also restore pride and unity to a neighborhood. It is not uncommon to see Neighborhood Watch groups participating in neighborhood cleanups and other activities that impact the quality of life for community residents.

The adoption of community policing by local law enforcement agencies has also contributed to the resurgence in Watch groups over the years. Neighborhood Watch fits nicely within the framework of law enforcement/community partnerships, and Neighborhood Watch meetings can be a useful forum to discuss neighborhood problems and practice problem-solving techniques.

And have you ACTUALLY looked at the advertisements you rant and rave about? It doesn't get you a black and orange Hitler Youth looking outfit, calling the number or going to the web page gets you a book, that's it, called "The Citizens' Preparedness Guidebook". It's supposed to provide current crime and disaster preparedness techniques as well as the latest information on terrorism, to give Americans guidance on how to prepare in their homes, neighborhoods, at work, at the airport, in places of worship, and in public spaces.

Know what you're talking about before you start imagining black helicopters and shooters on a grassy knoll.

[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: damnyank ]


From: USA | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 03 April 2002 01:48 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey damnyank, welcome to Rabble. If you scroll up, you'll see that I referred to the perturbing of the neighbourhood watch program into a citizen spy network as scary. There is an air of McCarthyism when the commercial pans down a row of houses and singles out the only one without an American flag while voicing over "suspicious activity". I know I didn't have an American flag while living in the states, and considering that my downstairs neighbour was an immigrant from Syria, I'd be nervous if I saw that ad during my residency. We have NW up here, too, and it is a great program...just don't take it beyond looking out for break-ins and vandalism and we'll all agree on that fact. Just to drive home my point, we weren't scared of the NW program, but of the NW program turning into the neighbourhood spy program.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 03 April 2002 01:57 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
To adapt what Ed says in his other commercials, YOU just might be a terrorist already!
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chris Guenard
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2275

posted 03 April 2002 02:45 PM      Profile for Chris Guenard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Indeed damnyank, it's a little bit of rhetorical strategy called satire. We have a bit of fun poking at established norms or policies, while voicing our concerns. In this case, the idea is that George W. Bush's government is becoming increasingly facist. Damn facist.
From: The Left | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
janew
webmistress
Babbler # 199

posted 30 November 2003 01:12 PM      Profile for janew     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I happened across this song about the topic ...

Ashcroft's Army


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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