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Author Topic: The Arms Trade / Trade offs
Jake
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Babbler # 390

posted 10 November 2001 01:35 PM      Profile for Jake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
>>>>Cost of weapons contract for building fighter jets won by Lockheed-Martin Corp. last October, $200,000,000,000.00

Rank of this contract among biggest U.S. defense contracts in history: 1st

Percent by which this exceeds the entire yearly operating budget of New York City: 400%

Percent it exceeds the amount of U.S. humanitarian aid given to Afghanistan: 76,823%

Amount it exceeds the gross domestic product of all Central American nations combined, $72,000,000,000.00

Number of years $200 billion would fully fund the national Head Start program for at-risk youth: 40 years

From Facing South

www.southernstudies.org/

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron." -- President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953, before the American Society of Newspaper Editors.
More Quotes and Lyrics

[URL=www.zmag.org/weluser.htm
]www.zmag.org/weluser.htm
[/URL]

Jake

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Jake ]


From: the recycling bin | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
PanzerLeader
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1166

posted 10 November 2001 01:41 PM      Profile for PanzerLeader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, god! You either have modern weapons or you do not. You do not you will lose. Canada is also considering buying the JSF. The best comes with a high price tag.
From: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jake
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 390

posted 10 November 2001 01:56 PM      Profile for Jake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PZL

It is quite astonishing that you have absorbed so much wisdom in so few years.
I expect that this JSF (whatever that is) will PDQ require even more trade offs.

PDQ=Pretty Damn Quick. Since this is not a military term I thought it best to spell it out for you.

Jake

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Jake ]


From: the recycling bin | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 10 November 2001 02:05 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You either have modern weapons or you do not. You do not you will lose.

Lose what?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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Babbler # 117

posted 10 November 2001 02:50 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
skdadl PL must be right. According to the editoral cartoon in our paper today anyway.

Two Afghanies behind a hill of sand bags, one says to the other; I see thousands of men on horseback with 19th century weapons coming this way fast. Other guys replies; Run for your lives the Canadians are coming.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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Babbler # 184

posted 10 November 2001 03:13 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Lose what?

This explains a lot about you.


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 10 November 2001 05:03 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As usual, we have on one side the people who get their pants wet at the thought of the highest levels of military spending in years vs the people who question the incredible waste of resources that such a white-elephant project must entail.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jake
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 390

posted 10 November 2001 06:03 PM      Profile for Jake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hi Dr C
>>>>As usual, we have on one side the people who get their pants wet at the thought of the highest levels of military spending in years vs the people who question the incredible waste of resources that such a white-elephant project must entail. <<<

I am usually able to make out the sense of your posts but you lost me completely on this one.
What exactly are you referring to?
Are the pants wet with ejaculate or piss?
Do you think that $200 billion for a new fighter plane is a wise investment of resources compared with some of the other choices suggested?
Do you agree with the gist of the quote from Eisenhower?
Good heavens! This is beginning to look like one of Marko's posts.
Forgive me for that Doc, but a few extra words would make your post more understandable.

Jake


From: the recycling bin | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 10 November 2001 06:19 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"wetting pants" as I use it here is a colloquial expression, not meant literally.

As for military spending, I believe there are more productive uses to which that money can be put, and yes, I agree with Eisenhower's quote.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
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Babbler # 228

posted 10 November 2001 07:12 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I on the other hand would make a literal comparison towards men, ejaculation and weapons. I'm itchin' to start a thread to compare and contrast the sexual attraction of weapons for men and the feeling of raw power that men achieve from the these rods of steel.

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Pimji ]


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 10 November 2001 07:28 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
This explains a lot about you.



It does, doesn't it?
It explains she is a compassionate and caring human being that recognizes the trillions spent on arms if used, instead, for building humanitarian institutions and lifting the mass of humanity from poverty, disease, and oppression, would go much further to ending terrorism and conflict than any weapon ever will.
Sadly, it says a lot about you, also.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 10 November 2001 07:31 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, yes, I forgot something ...

skdadl for PM!


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
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Babbler # 228

posted 10 November 2001 07:45 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I will second the motion.
From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 10 November 2001 08:02 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Me for finance minister!

(And I promise not to be like Paul Martin, since a FM itching to take the PM's job is a Bad Thing (TM))


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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Babbler # 1387

posted 10 November 2001 09:16 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PZ - So Canada is considering in buying some JSFs? Would make sense. I don't know why Canada never bought any F-16C Falcons. They're cheaper and just as effective as a multi-role fighter.

Jake - ???


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jake
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 390

posted 10 November 2001 10:51 PM      Profile for Jake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
JCL

Sorry about that. I edited the post to correct the reference to JSF.

Must have been thinkimg of you as I was posting to PZ.

Jake


From: the recycling bin | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
PanzerLeader
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Babbler # 1166

posted 11 November 2001 12:33 AM      Profile for PanzerLeader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
JCL, you have to keep in mind what role CF-18's were orginally bought for. They replaced the CF-100 Starfighters. They were meant as purely air-defence platforms.
CF-5 was our ligh strike aircraft in ETO. The F-16 was not bought because the government saw the CF-5 as filling the role of light strike. Also, the CF-5s were made in Canada. The government was not able to get permission to build the F-16 in Canada.
The CF-18 were order out of a group that was built for the USN. They still have their arresting gear. Although Canada pilots have not been normally trained for carrier ops since the days of Bonnie.
The JSF would replace the CF-18 in all roles. The reduced operating costs would allow more planes to be bought. I have heard up to 170. The JSF would allow the CF to use the latest GBUs. There are already plans to buy either JDAM, JASSOW or JSOW. Maybe one or maybe all.
However, it will be several years before we seen one in Canadian colours.

From: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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Babbler # 1387

posted 11 November 2001 01:24 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PL - Thanks for the info. I've been hearing about the JSF off and on for the past 2 years or so. I'm a big jet fighter enthusiast. Been to the Winnipeg Air Show three years in a row. It's interesting stuff. The best thing I saw at the last one was the B-2. It did a fly by and I got a few nice pics of it.

Once I finish my classes in a few weeks, I want to get them uploaded to an online photo album site.

As for the JSF in Canadian colors, what kind of tail art will we see? A head of a Canadian goose? Striking hilarity into the hearts of whatever enemies we have. Which would be an invasion of Greenland.

[ November 11, 2001: Message edited by: JCL ]

[ November 11, 2001: Message edited by: JCL ]


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
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Babbler # 228

posted 11 November 2001 12:58 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just watched some of the Remembrance Day celebrations, man , it’s like watching a chorus line singing with all their hearts, in a Greek tragedy.
From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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