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Author Topic: New Canadian Flag
Albert R. Calleros
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Babbler # 432

posted 27 October 2001 08:50 PM      Profile for Albert R. Calleros     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There should be a new Canadian flag that recognizes the cultural traditions of both the United Kingdom and France, as well as, reinforces the Canadian identity. The new Canadian flag would consist of the Union Jack (United Kingdom) occupying the upper left corner of the flag, the white fleur-de-lis (France) within the lower left corner of the flag, and the red maple leaf with thin white border (national identity) within the right half of the flag. The rest of the flag would be covered by a navy blue ensign (Pacific & Atlantic Oceans). The horizontal:vertical ratio would be 2:1. This flag is for all Canadians to be proud of. Although I am originally from the States, I am a dyed-in-the-wool Canadian at heart. God Bless Canada!

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Albert R. Calleros ]


From: Davis, CA, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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Babbler # 625

posted 27 October 2001 09:00 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Uh, no. Give me a flag with the union jack (canton, upper half, anywhere) and I'll break out my scisors. Unless you want us saluting the flag with one finger, I would suggest you stay away from bringing colonialism out from the depths of hell where it belongs, and into a piece of cloth that not only represents ALL of us, but also one we have to see everyday.

Sorry for being so antagonistic, I'm usually not like this, but I see no reason to change the flag, let alone shove that blood soaked rag we call the union jack in with the rest of our national symbols. It's bad enough colonialism is still reflected in the Coat of Arms, we don't need it running up the flag poll as well.

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Albert R. Calleros
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posted 27 October 2001 09:12 PM      Profile for Albert R. Calleros     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This new Canadian flag isn't about colonialism.

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Albert R. Calleros ]


From: Davis, CA, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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Babbler # 625

posted 27 October 2001 09:55 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Excuse me, but my people (celts) were oppressed by the British. Canada is not a "bi-cultural" nation. Sure, Britain and France, for a few centuries had a monopoly over the territory, but the First Peoples controlled the territory for arguably THOUSANDS of years. Where's their recognition? What about the Ukrainian immigrants who practically BUILT Saskatchewan as we know it? The Métis? The homogenization of Newfoundland immigrants that created a rich and unique culture? The Scots? The East Indians? The Acadians? The Québecois who were interested in independence since the 1600's, and who had no loyalty to France?

Bi-culturalism? feh!

Recognizing our history doesn't entail becoming slaves to it. We can (and have) build a better nation than the one built on the archaic ideals of territorial ownership that the British and French colonial powers would have had us create. We have the Maple leaf flag because we got rid of the horrid old rag we used to have- the red ensign- in 1965. Why turn back the clock?

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 27 October 2001 10:18 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Albert, on the off-chance your not just pulling our legs, I'd like to point out that within a one kilometer radius of my office, there are more Tamil, Somali, and Farsi speakers than those having English or French as a first language. Such a flag would mean little to most of those people , other than remind them perhaps that colonialism is harder to get away from than they had hoped.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 27 October 2001 10:28 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The last flag debate, in '65, started a fist fight in the house of commons.

So, I'm all for having another one.

I'd go with the same pattern, but I'd change the red side bars and leaf to blue, with white viens on the leaf.

Take that, Hab fans.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 27 October 2001 10:41 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

How 'bout this?

They call it "The Renewed Canadian Flag", or TRCF for short. It was used by federalists and moderate Sovereigntists who voted "Non" during the '95 referendum.

Or is this more like what you're lookin' for?

I've got plenty more images where that came from, if you're interested

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 27 October 2001 10:53 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While we're talking flags, I suggest we get rid of the rag we call the Ontario Provincial flag, seen below,

And replace it with the flag of the Upper Canadian Rebellion which indirectly led to responsible government in Upper Canada:

Now, I'm not going to comment on a new flag for Manitoba, but frankly, as I'm sure you've all gathered, I'm no friend to neo-colonial flags...


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 27 October 2001 10:53 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like the Canadian flag. It's very recognizable and one of the only ones that doesn't go strictly with a boring stripes idea. OK Maybe I would have done it differently but it's fine the way it is.

The last flag included the Union Jack in the upper left corner, much like the present flag of Ontario. The European ethnic baggage is celebrated much more in the various provincial flags.

Changing the national anthem on the other hand -- yes, I'm in favour of that! The Canadian national anthem really, really, really, sucks. It's a very short distance ahead of the Indian national anthem, which may quite possibly be the worst of any major nation I know of (written by Tagore, by commission; he also wrote what became one of the world's BEST national anthems, Bangladesh's -- not written by commission, natch). Sorry to my Indian friends, but I've never hidden my view of that anthem.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 27 October 2001 11:03 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You don't like the Indian National Anthem? Why? The lyrics, or the tune? I too like Bangladesh's, BTW. I also like the Israeli national anthem when the latter part that is rarely used is included. I'll see if I can find a link, since I'm not sure you have a clue as to what I'm talking about

BTW, I don't want to change the national flag either. Just gave some images I thought some of you might be interested in.


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 27 October 2001 11:04 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I always thought the old Soviet anthem the best.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jake
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posted 27 October 2001 11:13 PM      Profile for Jake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wonder if Mr C. would like some suggestions as to how the US flag might be improved.

Jake


From: the recycling bin | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 27 October 2001 11:16 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nothing beats "Waltzing Matilda".
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 27 October 2001 11:27 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, let's try this. Does the sound work for you guys? I'll try and find more...
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
radio
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posted 27 October 2001 11:31 PM      Profile for radio     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Waltzing Matilda" makes for good listening and is fun to sing. France's 'Marseilles' is one of the most stirring and inspiring. "Oh, Canada" is a dirge.

It would seem that any flag design is more divisive than uniting. People who refuse to let go of the past (no matter how distant) will never be satisfied, no matter what's on the flag. Given the philosophies and pacifist propensities of many people who post here, perhaps the Canadian flag should be solid white. That way it wouldn't offend anyone and would send a message to any potential enemies at the same time.

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: radio ]


From: Gore Bay, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 27 October 2001 11:39 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
uh, I dunno about that. Some people may look at our white flag and think of racial bigotry...

Why not a multicolour flag?

I'm just kidding. Why change the flag at all?

Tommy_Paine, do you mean the
pre or post 1944 Soviet anthem?

This is an okay site for national anthems if Quicktime works good for you. Whenever I use it, though, it's all fuzzy.

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
PanzerLeader
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posted 27 October 2001 11:54 PM      Profile for PanzerLeader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"O, Canada" is an good anthem. Leave it the way it is. I pefered the Red Ensign, but I love our current flag too. If had my choice "The Maple Leaf Forever" would be it. It is a great song because it piss off....well you know who.
From: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 27 October 2001 11:58 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Panzerleader, do you say the things you so solely to piss everyone off?

Anyway, I think the national anthem should be modified, however I wouldn't call it a big issue of mine. I think the music is fine.

I don't see why no one considers our national anthem stirring and inspiring. Sure, it's not painted with that emotion, but you just gotta know where to look

Take the line (sing along!) "...With glowing hearts, we see the rise, the true, north, strong and free!..." Tell me that's not stirring and inspiring

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 28 October 2001 12:14 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, I found the example I was looking for. The best version of Hatikva I could find. The sound quality when I was on my other computer was much better, so maybe this computer just doesn't do good with Quicktime. Anyway, hope the quality is better for all you!
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
PanzerLeader
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posted 28 October 2001 12:17 AM      Profile for PanzerLeader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The thread wanted views.
From: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 28 October 2001 12:21 AM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How about changing the colours from Liberal Red to NDP orange? Sounds good to me!
From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
PanzerLeader
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posted 28 October 2001 12:25 AM      Profile for PanzerLeader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, the nation should have the colours of winners, not losers.
From: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
redshift
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posted 28 October 2001 12:47 AM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
meades perhaps we should adopt the one from "fiddler on the roof", ; "if I were a rich man" . as flag perhaps a white ground with a rampant gold dollar sign.
A country's culture should be reflected in its symbols. The beaver was a happy symbol before its americanization rendered it ridiculous.

From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 28 October 2001 01:18 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
meades, the rendition of the Bangladeshi national anthem on that site is abysmal. Here's the best thing I can find on the internet, unfortunately only a version by a chorus (I don't think Tagore wrote it to be sung by chorus):
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/dada/34/music/anthem.rm

The translation of the words on that national anthems website is not so bad, but it is impossible to translate the opening lines:

My Bengal of gold, I love you
Forever your skies, your air set my heart in tune
As if it were a flute.

The first line is fine, but the next line,

chirodin tomaar aakaash, tomaar baataash, aamaar praane baajaay baanshi

forever your skies, your air, play the flute in my breath

But breath means also soul, heart, being etc. and it is an incredibly beautiful, metaphorically compact line in Bengali, especially the way, in singing, the tomaar and aamaar are juxtaposed to intertwine "your" and "my" breath. Brilliant. As for the rest, I guess you'd have to have seen the gentle beauty of Bengal, the fierce weather, etc. to understand.

For a sample of some of Tagore's music, go to this website:
http://www.calcuttaweb.com/gaan/rabindra/

I'm pretty sure you won't like them. Tagore is one of my idols but let me just say -- flush almost everything written by him in English, except the non-fiction, down the toilet, including his so-called "translations" of his own poetry. If you don't understand Bengali and haven't breathed the air of Bengal you probably won't understand why he is so great. Sorry. Sometimes genius is untranslatable! Sadly. Anyway here are two of his songs, sorry that Kanika Banerjee can't handle the higher register with grace.
http://www.netguruindia.com/entertain/audiomusic/audiobangla/songs1/aamipothbhola.ram
http://www.calcuttaweb.com/gaan/rabindra/aguner_parasmoni.rm

For reading up on Tagore I sugges the biography that came out a couple of years ago by two people, an English guy and a Bengali woman. Can't remember their names. Drat.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 28 October 2001 01:37 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow!
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 28 October 2001 05:30 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like the fact that our anthem has no bombs bursting anywhere in it.

But, it does get dirge-like, when those trumpets drag - bwaaa, bwa, bwa bwaaaaaaaa. Anybody know the French version? I had to memorize it when I was in elementary, cuz of this teacher who made us memorize that, and the Lord's Prayer. (Weird rural schools).

I wouldn't mind changing our anthem to a Hip song though, even though they're losing their edge now. Little Bones? Courage? New Orleans? Already anthems in their own right. And never been American-ized.

If only we actually DID run the country, eh?


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 28 October 2001 05:57 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ooh! Ooh! I know! I know the French lyrics!
O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.

Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 28 October 2001 08:18 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, here's the French lyrics as I learned them:

O Canada
Tear-uh duh nose I yuh
Tone froan tessent
Day flurrons glory yuh
Carton bra support ay lay pay yuh
Eel say portay la kwaa
Tony stwire et un ay popay yuh
Day plue brill-yant expwaa
Ay ta velour
Duh fwaa trampay
Pro tay shura no foy ay
Ay no dwaa
Pro tay shura no foy ay
Ay no dwaa

I always liked the bra support part personally. Heh.

It's neat to know the French O Canada. I thought everyone knew it from being forced to learn it in school (as I was), but it's amazing how many people don't. One of those party tricks to impress your friends and family.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 October 2001 08:32 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Curses, side scrolling!


Meades, I mean the Soviet anthem, the one hockey fans are familiar with. The first time I heard it was in the late 60's, at the London Gardens, on a boxing day exhibition match between the Knights and a Soviet Jr. Team. As a result of watching the Soviet Jr.'s play, I was one of the few that didn't think Team Canada was going to walk all over the Soviets in '72.

I remember towards the end of the Soviet Anthem, a spectator mumbled to his buddy, "You can tell it's Russian. Every thing Russian has to be way too long."

I think "O Canada" sounds like a dirge to us because we hear it so often.

Panzerleader, there are "Politically Correct" lyrics to "The Maple Leaf Forever".

You know how in Philly they sometimes play "America the Beautiful" at the start of hockey games? Well, I'd play "The Maple Leaf Forever" before key Leaf games. And, yes, you bet every home game against the Habs would be a key game.

I really miss the anglo/french rivalry played out in harmless hockey fashion. It's no fun beating up on the hapless Habs when there's so few French players willing to play for them anymore.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
PanzerLeader
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posted 28 October 2001 02:08 PM      Profile for PanzerLeader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Political correct???? Then who would want to sing the song? It takes all the fun out of it. Not that anything being PC actually matters. PC only affects those who give a dam about being PC. I don't therefore I do not have to be PC.
From: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
sherpafish
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posted 28 October 2001 02:38 PM      Profile for sherpafish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I wouldn't mind changing our anthem to a Hip song though, even though they're losing their edge now. Little Bones? Courage? New Orleans? Already anthems in their own right. And never been American-ized.

When I was in high school a buddy of mine and I drafted a legal petition to change the anthem to 'Wheat Kings'. We only got about 20 signitures though.

WHEAT KINGS

Sundown on the Paris of the prairies
Wheat Kings have all treasures buried,
All you hear are the rusty breeses
Pushing around a weather-vane Jesus.

In a Zippo lighter he sees the killer's face
Maybe it's someone standing in a killer's place
Twenty years for nothing, well that's nothing new
And no one's intrested in something you didn't do

Wheat Kings and pretty things
Let's just see what tomarrow brings

There's a dream he dreams where the high-school's dead and stark
It's a museum and we're all locked up in it after dark
The walls are lined all yellow-grey and sinister
Hung with pictures of our parent's Prime Ministers

Wheat Kings and pretty things
Let's just wait for what tomarrow brings

Late breaking story on the CBC
A nation whispers that they always knew that he'd go free
They add you can't be fond of living in the past
'Cause if you are then there's no way that you're going to last

Wheat kings and pretty things
Oh, that's what tomarrow brings.


From: intra-crainial razor dust | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 28 October 2001 02:42 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Yes, we love with fond devotion
This, the land that looms
Rugged, storm-scarred o'er the ocean
With our thousand homes.

Love her, in our love recalling
Those who gave us birth,
And fond tales as night befalling
Come, like dreams, to earth."

(Norwegian national anthem: original Norwegian available on request.)


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 29 October 2001 03:41 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sherpafish, you psychic friend you, y'know I was totally thinking Wheat Kings when I wrote that post and I didn't write it down for some weird reason. Maybe we should revive the petition!!
From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
sherpafish
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posted 29 October 2001 04:05 AM      Profile for sherpafish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok Mach, I'm game! Any peace-loving fan of the Hip is a friend of mine . (I'll even forgive you the slight against Doc Azimov)
Is there anyway to post a link to an mp3 file, we could start by converting our fellow babblers!

From: intra-crainial razor dust | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
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posted 29 October 2001 05:02 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jeff, you forgot something! Aren't we supposed to repeat the last two lines?
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 29 October 2001 05:39 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sherpafish, I'm looking, but haven't found it yet.

PS Between you and Dr. C I think I am just going to have to give Asimov another read. Curses on your peer pressure!!


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 29 October 2001 09:22 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jeff, I found you some music:

Norwegian national anthem and music

and on this site you can hear the words spoken (see the wonderfully wiggling flag).

And all this gives me another excuse to insert the music and many versions in several languages of my favourite national melody, Men of Harlech -- do listen to the tune -- excellent for getting the blood running in the morning.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 29 October 2001 01:28 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post

All of a sudden, I have the Hockey Night In Canada theme song in my head.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pankaj
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posted 29 October 2001 02:42 PM      Profile for Pankaj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like the canadian flag because of the maple leaf. I wonder, how many other countries' flags depict nature?
From: London, ON | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian the second
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posted 29 October 2001 02:44 PM      Profile for Ian the second   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, well. Lybia has already taken a totally monochromatic green flag for itself. Maybe Canada's new flag would substitute a tie for the maple leaf. A POWER TIE!!


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From: Toronto City, Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 29 October 2001 02:45 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
This site lets you search for flags by keyword. I only got one result for 'nature' (Uzbekistan).
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/

From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian the second
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posted 29 October 2001 02:48 PM      Profile for Ian the second   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I kind of like the "renewed" flag with the blue, but it would offend Quebec sovereigntists. Maybe we could work Tim Horton's into it somehow...?

This may be another topic, but I think we need a new national anthem, and I don't jsut mean lyrics. What we need is some awesome rock-opera type thing, preferably performed by Cheap Trick.


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From: Toronto City, Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Albert R. Calleros
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posted 03 November 2001 06:48 PM      Profile for Albert R. Calleros     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The music for new Canadian anthem should be the original theme of "Hockey Night in Canada". The party anthem for Canada should be Ricky Martin's "The Cup of Life".

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Albert R. Calleros ]


From: Davis, CA, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
NP
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posted 04 November 2001 12:11 AM      Profile for NP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm sorry I have to pipe in so late, but here goes:

My ethnic group (Ukrainian Canadians) were essential to the formation of Western Canada, both economically and socially. We were at the forefront of political change, and led the charge for social democracy in the 1930s.

Going back to the Union Jack would be a slap in the face to the over 1 million Canadians who are at least 1/2 Ukrainian. The Union Jack, to me, is a symbol of the War Measures Act that was imposed on my family in WW1 which resulted in my great grandfather's land being taken by the government. King and Empire my ass!

I think our flag is just fine as is thank you very much!


From: The city that rhymes with fun | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625

posted 04 November 2001 01:18 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Go Noah!!! YAY!
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1387

posted 04 November 2001 05:10 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No, the nation should have the colours of winners, not losers.

Ouch. Good one, PL.

I like our current flag. And as for the music and words, it is pretty good though.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged

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